Root of the Middle Way – Week 1

Video
Audio
play-rounded-outline
 
Welcome everybody to this series of explorations and contemplations.
I'm looking forward to exploring and contemplating together.

I thought that we could try to approach this class

as an exercise in awareness of dependent origination,

and so see how organically and dynamically that can transpire and what we can learn together

in this way by contemplating the profound "Verses of The Root of The Middle Way."

So this is Buddhist philosophy of the most classic

form possible. I think we can safely say, no?

Nāgārjuna certainly has a claim to being

Buddhism's most renowned philosopher.

There are many, of course, but that's a good case for saying that if you have to

pick one, it would be Nāgārjuna-- the most influential philosopher.

And Nāgārjuna is known also in the tradition that we are

particularly informed by here in this region and at this institute.

In that tradition, Nāgārjuna is considered a charioteer, someone who was able to open

a path to the wisdom of the perfection of insight, the Prajñāpāramitā, independently.

Meaning by the power, his own power of insight and intelligence, enabled him to deliver the intent

of the profound Prajñāpāramitā teachings in a way that is accessible for human beings like us.

In particular, a path to the profound insight, which is non-conceptual and beyond

all constructs, which nonetheless relies on constructs in a very skillful fashion,

that encourages us to be critical and use our capacity for

critical thinking, reasoning to the very best, to our very best.

So, I think we can say that that is one of the real highlights of Nāgārjuna's profound approach

is that he is able to deliver a way of going about things rationally,

by means of logic and analysis, in a way that allows ourselves

to question profoundly our own most deepest convictions.

So through Nāgārjuna's skillful approach, we are able to ask ourselves

questions, that perhaps we would otherwise never be able to formulate.

Not to mention really pursue those questions, but even just

they wouldn't occur to us, that something of this sort could be questioned.

So Nāgārjuna invites us to, in this way, follow him on a journey to insight,

that very much is about looking at ourselves: at our own beliefs, at our own core beliefs,

and then questioning how well founded those core beliefs really are.

So in other words this is a journey that takes us into

emptiness and dependent origination.

And that teaching of emptiness and dependent origination is,

we can say, the hallmark of the Buddha's teaching.

That's also what we will see in the homage that Nāgārjuna pays

to the teacher, the teacher of teachers, the king of teachers, the Buddha.

at the beginning of the treatise, he praises the Buddha as

this perfect teacher, because of being able to show emptiness and dependent origination.

It's a great challenge, of course, to try to facilitate

that kind of contemplation in a genuine fashion.

Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche has nonetheless asked me to do this,

and I'm also happy to do it because it is a very rewarding,

tremendously rewarding exercise that we can do together and

use each other as witnesses and real partners and helpers

in this process of coming to, hopefully,

increasingly profound insight into emptiness and dependent origination.

So Rinpoche just yesterday, I think it was, said something

to the effect that, the Buddha's teaching is characterized by these four seals, right?

Those four summaries of the Buddhahdharma.

That are that all conditioned things are impermanent,

everything involved, associated with negative emotions is painful.

All factors, all phenomena, all things are empty and devoid of self.

And finally, passing beyond suffering is peaceful liberation.

So, of those, Rinpoche said, the first of those,

that all conditioned things, meaning everything that is

the product of causes and conditions, is also impermanent.

Or just the fact of impermanence, the impermanence of things,

that whatever was built will have to fall,

that whatever meeting took place will have to disperse,

that birth ends in death. Those facts of impermanence are not unknown to us.

It's something that we know, and it's also something that

is quite widely acknowledged in the world's religions.

So it's a hallmark of, this is a key content of the Buddha's teachings.

It's something that always has to be there

in the context of any aspect of Buddhist teachings.

It has to fit with this message. But at the same time,

it's also something that is quite well known in the world.

Perhaps we don't spend all that much time thinking about impermanence

and just how impermanent things are, but it's not that we aren't aware

of this. We are, and we have been for as long as we can remember.

So how about the next of the four maxims,

that everything associated with negative emotions is painful?

So Rinpoche said that's also not uniquely Buddhist

to say that, to say that craving, aggression and ignorance,

close-mindedness, that those are not factors for good. It's not that this

will make us happy, but that there's a clear link with suffering there.

It's also something that we know from experience and the way

we think also acknowledges this, even if we aren't Buddhist.

It's something that the world's religions too acknowledge. It's not

as such uniquely Buddhist to say that these negative emotions are,

and what is associated with those is also painful, or suffering, or stress,

whichever way we may try to translate the term 'Dukkha' in Pali, Sanskrit.

So where do these negative emotions come from? That's perhaps not so clear to us.

But the fact that they have this association with suffering is quite well known.

But then Rinpoche said emptiness and no-self, that is not

something that is very well acknowledged, very widely acknowledged.

It's not something that we can say we know probably from experience

already, and it's not something that we can say that we understand already,

unless we are already steeped in this kind of

process of learning, reflecting and meditating.

And it's not something that is very widely acknowledged in

the world's religions, philosophical systems and so on either.

In fact it seems in many ways contrary to what we are used to thinking,

and it seems contrary to the way we experience things.

Right? I very naturally believe that I am here in a situation together with you.

It is so obvious to me that this is the case that really

I wouldn't question it under normal circumstances.

I would just be here and there would be tons of questions that I could

ask about this event and myself and you and what's going on here.

Many, many questions could be asked, but that

very question would probably not come up.

Am I here?

It's a dumb question, no?

And if it is asked, then also typically we can think a little bit

about that, as we approach the treatise that we will be studying here.

Just asking a question like that, no? We can ask ourselves

that question, how does it feel to suddenly ask ourselves

Am I here? Or who am I to be here?

How does that feel? How easy or not does such a question come to us?

And then also think, what might the reaction be, if we bring

up a question like that among others in different contexts.

At home with the family, what would happen, if suddenly

at the breakfast table I tell to my family: "Am I here?"

What would happen at the workplace, if I say that?

Either in some sort of work situation or in the break, whatever.

With my friends, what will happen if I asked these questons?

Is there a kind of place where this question would fit in?

Is there some kind of group that I know, where this

question would be like at least an okay question to ask?

Because I think in many of these cases it would be

to say, that it would be awkward to ask that question, is an understatement, no?

It would be asking for trouble certainly, no?

And why is that? So what I would like us to try together

during this course is to, in the spirit of the treatise that we study,

to keep asking ourselves these questions as we go.

So why is it, that first of all it's so unlikely

that I would begin to ask myself, am I here or not?

And why is it the case that it's such an awkward question

to ask, or even uncomfortable question to ask?

For me it's awkward to ask it and for those who

hear it they will also feel concerned, probably.

They will be concerned about me and they will be baffled.

If there was a good atmosphere before, then it's

kind of broken by asking something of this kind.

So why is that? Let's try to... So, Rinpoche also highlighted,

when I asked him for guidance on how to approach this course,

he also highlighted the way His Holiness the Dalai Lama

encourages a combination of analysis and rest.

So I would like us to try to do the same here also, during the

classes and during the day and the nights that will unfold

as we go over the next couple of months, to bring

whatever we think of here and the analysis to mind.

And then a lot of that analysis has to do with asking questions.

And then allowing ourselves to be informed by

those questions and informed by our own reactions,

the reactions that we get from others

and our own understanding as that begins to unfold.

Let us give ourselves time to be as informed as we can by that.

So, in other words to try to approach the whole

process of learning, reflecting and meditating,

which, as we know, should be an integrated process

that never really has only one element going on.

Well, an integrated process where none of these

three elements is divorced from the others,

where they are mutually reinforcing.

So, in this way we will be relying on the framework

of analytic meditation and then resting meditation.

Which both have a very long and amazing history.

The analytic approach is what is upheld in scholarly institutions,

meaning all the way back to the origins

of the Buddhist teachings in the world.

There have been teaching and listening and contemplation situations,

where the Buddhas followers have tried to comprehend,

ascertain and clarify, elaborate upon the teachings.

So also there are very old institutions for doing that

in India, in places like Nālandā and Vikramaśilā,

they have a good claim to being the world's first universities.

You could argue that, if we want to find

places where knowledge was cherished,

not just spiritual knowledge, not just religious knowledge and

not just knowledge of one particular spiritual or religious tradition,

but the whole array of philosophy and religious views that were

at play in India in those days, were also studied at those institutions.

And so were the arts and the sciences as one had them in those days.

So there is a good case, we can say, for certainly saying that

Nālandā, Vikramaśilā and institutions of that sort

are among the very first examples that we have of the idea of a university.

So in those places one learns and reflects on the

Buddhist teachings in a very comprehensive way.

And that tradition is very important to recognize,

alive still and well in the world today.

And it's one of the really profound facts

of this place, the Rangjung Yeshe Institute.

That it's a place where we can enjoy access to that tradition,

by learning from experts who are steeped in philosophical learning,

who have perhaps joined a monastic institution

when they were very young as children.

They enrolled and began a long process of studies,

which is an ongoing process on a daily basis.

Waking up early in the morning, reciting

scriptures that are to be studied later in the day.

Then we have expert teachers, who lecture

on those, that's a very lively conversation.

The teacher will ask penetrating questions and inquire among the students, the students will,

in the same way try to come up with the most pertinent and sharpest questions they can, to the teacher.

And there is this whole tradition of debating at length,

and very actively, the purport of the teachings.

So, basically the whole day is, once you join the monastic college, then your whole

day is steeped in learning, reflecting and meditating in this comprehensive way.

So if you go about things in that way with a sincere mind and with a

good motivation for many years, for nine years, ten years, twelve years,

and often this process continuous and the great scholars never stop studying of course.

As they teach many sessions a day of very different kinds of scriptural subject matter,

they also inquire with other scholars and discuss. They compose

their own writings, which then receive critique from others and so on.

So there's a very vibrant traditional

learning environment, which is still here and accessible.

And of course it's very different to study with someone who comes

from that tradition, because he or she will be really, it will be such,

will have absorbed so much of this wisdom, this comprehensive

approach to learning, reflecting and meditating

that they often really radiate a special kind of

intelligence, that is difficult to find elsewhere.

So it's a wonderful fact that this kind

of approach is still alive in the world.

and Rinpoche asked me to go through the Root Verses here in the text

of the "Root of the Middle Way."

And then the hope is, that as we study the Root Verses together,

you can after that, perhaps it will be somewhat easier for you to connect with the vast and

profound scholarship that is here with us alive in the traditional approach to learning.

So that you can receive teachings from real experts in the

scriptural, commentarial traditions, and that's a wonderful thing.

Once you begin to get a sense of where

this is going, let's see if we do that, yeah?

Because where is it going? That's one of the key questions

that we will keep in mind throughout all of this,

but once it gets to you, let's say it like that, then it is very wonderful

to have accessible, elaborate, comprehensive teaching in the commentarial literature,

and also people who can explain that.

Those commentaries on the "Root of the Middle Way,"

all the way from the times in India and up

until today, are very different from each other.

The points that they make, the approach, the way they

understand what's going on in the "Root of the Middle Way,"

of course you can say it's all Buddhist teachings, and certainly it is,

but it's Buddhist teaching presented in many very different ways,

and often there will be debates, and fierce

debate, about what is right and what is wrong.

That kind of debate is something that one can really benefit from,

if, in particular, I believe, if one has some sense,

or if one has been taken by the issues that come up in this context, then it's

very enriching to be able to listen to extremely well-studied and brilliant minds

who can develop a whole position around what

you just have one or two thoughts about.

Those thoughts were very important, but to then hear someone develop a whole worldview

out of that little insight that you arrived at in your own contemplation, is wonderful.

And in particular, if there are then different worldviews, that are equally

possible and realizable, based on the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā,

then so much the better. So there's a real wealth of

understanding, insight there to be discovered.

Once we have gone through the root text here, if any of you

feel like studying with a real expert in Mādhyamaka,

someone who can bring alive these commentarial traditions

and the debates also between them, then I would be very happy.

Then I would consider this class successful. If you get that inspiration and that interest

and that courage that it takes to enter this kind of immersive philosophical study.

That's about the analytic approach.

So, in the analytic approach one uses basically two things.

One uses scripture, the teachings of the Buddha,

and then those treatises that we just talked about.

The treatises and the commentaries on the words of

the Buddha and the great followers of the Buddha.

So it's a still emerging body of literature that one

studies, but not just in a passive sense of course,

subjecting whatever is taught there, to critical analysis.

So reasoning and logic is the other key factor.

There's scripture and reasoning. Those are the two tools, so to speak,

that are used in this process of gaining insight in the scholarly institutions,

in the scholarly tradition. And that's a process again, that takes

typically many years and can go on for a lifetime very easily.

But at any rate it's something that requires time and effort.

Then there is the approach of the yogi, the approach of free rest,

which can be a shortcut at times if one is of the right kind.

Meaning, if one is able to, first of all have

the fortune of meeting a qualified teacher,

and if one has the fortune of being able to see

that qualified teacher as a qualified teacher.

And not just as a qualified teacher, but with a whole lot of openness.

In fact, for the oral instructions that are

at the heart of this practice of the yogi, free rest,

it's not very much a matter of understanding them and

thinking about them, it's much more a question of applying them.

So in other words, for one to be able to really benefit from that approach,

one has to be very open and confident and beyond doubt in a way.

Otherwise, if one keeps contemplating what the instructions are

then one isn't applying them. That's quite logical.

As long as one is wandering about the character of a practical

instruction, for that long one isn't making use of it.

It could be a practical instruction for anything.

If I read the manual for turning on the radio, then while I read and

think about how I might turn on the radio, I'm not turning it on.

But the manual is there for me to figure out

how to turn it on, and indeed turn it on.

So, if my encounter with the oral instructions becomes

basically accumulating learning about oral instructions,

and in my heart of hearts still wondering about how they should

be applied, then it's not the yogi's approach of rest, right?

But if one is of that kind, it is said, then it is possible

to shortcut this whole approach of learning and reflecting,

and arrive at profound liberating insight in very short time.

But it takes a very special person to be like that.

We can ask ourselves, am I of that kind?

Perhaps we are, but probably not. Especially these days

when there is such an emphasis on, and for good reasons,

an emphasis on being critical and not accepting things

at face value, at questioning. That's what we learn in school

And as a matter of fact, of course, if we give up that,

we won't be very successful in the world as it is today.

We need to be skeptical, critical, asking questions,

do it skillfully at the right time and so on. But nonetheless,

if we give up that critical bent, then we don't get anywhere.

And that's also what our parents will tell us,

when we are small, that's what our teachers will tell us.

And so it becomes second nature, and we think that we can't

allow ourselves to be any other way, which is generally true.

But when it then comes to oral instructions,

we also think that this is how it is.

And then it is possible that we can have this

very strong interest in learning meditation,

and really being fed up with scholarly learning

and just wanting to get to meditation practice.

And yet, when we get the real key to it all, then that key

becomes our focal point that we then begin to question,

and ask ourselves questions about, rather than using it.

Now when we do analyze and investigate, in particular

the subject matter that we will be concerned with here,

then every so often, quite continuously, there will be

points when we think, oh! Whatever, however our reaction may be,

that's also something that I would like if we can try to

sort of, notice, most importantly for ourselves.

When I come to understand something, then what is my reaction?

But there will be those points all the time.

There will be points of great irritation,

and great... And then there will also be times when we think

that a new insight has arisen in our minds.

So when that happens, then we can allow ourselves

to just be with that, so to speak.

Not as a big program and now I have to sit and focus on that necessarily,

but just rather than skipping over it almost

and right into the next thing for analysis.

Try to just take it in on a deeper level.

We can try to acknowledge, in as open a

fashion as we can, what this means for us,

what it means for the world, what we have come to understand.

So that's a way... So at that point we are no longer

maintaining the scripture and reasoning framework,

we just allow ourselves to benefit from whatever we saw.

So that is a simple way of embarking on this yogic path of free rest.

And we do it whenever there is a sense of doubts and questions disappearing.

So in this way we can combine the two.

Which is what I mentioned a long while ago,

that we can try to rely on analytic meditation,

resolving the view through learning and reflection.

And then also the yogic approach, the direct approach of free rest.

And that is what His Holiness has encouraged us

to do and that's what Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche told me.

Please take His Holiness' advice and see,

if you can all go about things in that way.

And if we do that, then I think we have a good chance

of really benefiting from this process,

because they really go very well together.

It takes a lot of energy and focus and

hard work to maintain the critical spirit.

It's not so much the case that the concepts that we

will be introduced to here in the Mūlamadhyamaka

are terribly complex.

There will be some Buddhist frameworks that will be brought up,

but it's very limited stuff and very basic notions,

that will be presented typically.

So that's not the challenge, it's not that

we have to compare to learning Abhidharma,

this is a breeze, there's nothing of that sort of exotic,

complex, philosophical framework that has to be learned.

And it's not so much a matter either of

constructing arguments and developing a view either.

So that's not the challenge here really.

It's more a challenge to keep being as critical

as we would like to think of ourselves as being.

If that makes sense.

I like to think of myself as someone who is

not easily convinced when people say something.

I like to think that I have a sort of sound,

critical capacity, that I'm happy to apply.

If a politician argues something, then

I'm not just there to cheer, but I think,

and if I find it justified then I will applaud.

The same with the scientific idea, not just because

some famous scientist has said this is how it is,

so I cheer and change my worldview. I try to understand.

That's the kind of view of myself that I'd like to maintain,

that I'm this very astute and careful person.

I think often we know that we aren't like that

a whole lot of the time, but I think each one of us,

we have that with us too.

We'd like to think of ourselves, and for good reasons,

why should we think otherwise?

We'd like to think of ourselves as people who

don't get carried away by whatever people say,

that we want to keep our two feet on the ground and

make sure that we are on the same page as the ones

that we communicate with, that we are not just running off

in any direction that people tell us to go.

I think, that much probably we all have

the aspiration to be that kind of person.

But the way the reasoning works in the Mūlamadhyamaka

is very penetrating and unrelenting.

So, it can become very frustrating to be asked again

and again questions that we feel we cannot answer.

And yet we feel that we should be able to answer them.

So the challenge, what really requires stamina,

is to say I am going to be that person,

that critical, careful person throughout this whole process.

I'm not going to just give in and say,

"Oh yeah, Nāgārjuna, you're so great, and now I understand,

and please leave me alone." Of course we can do that anytime, that's fine.

And often people do that, and I do that myself also,

and it can be even quite virtuous to do that, perhaps.

But it also... not the last part, please leave me alone,

is probably not virtuous, no?

But there must be some virtue in cheering nonetheless, yeah?

So, if we do that, then basically we prevent ourselves from gaining

what is really there to be gained in the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā.

It's crucial that we keep up the stamina

and that we are honest to ourselves,

and that we try to maintain this sort of image of ourselves

as careful, critical, discerning people.

And not in order to present ourselves

that way to others, but in our heart of hearts,

taking our own views, our own beliefs seriously.

And that is something that I think we all owe ourselves, no?

If we don't take our own core beliefs seriously,

that is really pathetic, no?

That's a wasted life, no? It's as if we don't live, no?

If we say, "Yeah, I really feel, I really believe this way, but so what?"

What kind of life is that, no?

So, that's the kind of, that is the kind of courage and the kind of

energy that we need to muster in a continuous way as we go, yeah?

So that's demanding, and then it can be very rewarding

on many levels to have the free approach of resting.

Whenever we then get a little relief, by all means take it.

And don't just think now, but okay, next thing, yeah?

So try to take that relief and see what it does to us.

to our being, our actions, our orientation.

And then it's exactly eleven o'clock.

Oh, we still have fifteen minutes, that's wonderful, fortunate.

So yeah, that's about the sort of approach

that I thought we should try to take, no?

In this period that we are together, and try to see it as

not just spending some time in the mornings doing a class together,

but as a sort of whole process, day and night.

Living and breathing this stuff, yeah!

That is actually the most meaningful and natural way to go about it.

It's not very meaningful and not very natural to confine this kind of analysis to some,

to some compartment in our life, where we are concerned with Mādhyamaka philosophy.

It's not like so many other things in life that works perfectly well, no?

Like, I take my Spanish class on Thursday

evening, perhaps, and that's fine, no?

Then I train every morning, half an hour, and that's it, yeah?

I don't have to, unless that is all what is important for me in that period

of my life, then I don't need to think in Spanish all the time, right?

And mathematics and so on, especially when we

have many things to learn, then it doesn't work.

I can't be all about Spanish, all about

mathematics, all about cooking 24/7, no?

That just doesn't work.

So, often we do have to say, "That time is when I do this," and so on.

And of course we will have formal sessions here in the morning,

but because what we are concerned with here

is of such core significance for our own understanding of ourselves,

who we are, what the world is, that's why to really benefit

and to approach this whole learning process in the most natural way,

we have to bring it to mind repeatedly.

And we can do that in these two ways.

We can work with our intellect and the teachings

and the reasoning that we are presented with in the text.

So we should do that as much as we can,

and we can do it by taking in whatever

insights we arrive at, as we just talked about.

So in that way it will be this mutually reinforcing interplay of

analytic meditation and the yogis' style of free-rest meditation.

So, how is it?

I screen share?

Yeah, that's the title, right, of the text,

The Mūlamadhyamakakārikā by Nāgārjuna.

So we talked a little bit about Nāgārjuna already, and this text is...

Nāgārjuna is associated with very many different kinds of Buddhist teaching,

but this one is probably the most renowned of his treatises.

Otherwise, in the Tibetan tradition and elsewhere too,

Nāgārjuna is known for many different philosophical works

and also for philosophy of both sūtra and mantra,

and for commentaries on sūtra and mantra.

But this one is probably the one,

his most well-known and influential treatise.

So it's called "Insight" and then "The Stanzas,"

because we'll be studying "The Root Verses of the Middle Way,"

Madhyamaka, in Sanskrit.

So that Middle Way is an important Buddhist concept.

The Buddhist teaching is presented always

as a balance and avoiding extreme positions.

In all contexts of Buddhist teaching,

there is this sense of a flawless middle,

where you don't fall into either extreme.

That's in terms of conduct.

We hear the Buddha teaching to the monks and the nuns that they should not,

and to lay followers too of course, that they should not

be carried away by sense pleasures,

and at the same time they should not

subject themselves to hardship for the sake of hardship.

But in finding a golden means where

we are not carried away and waste our time as humans

in the blind pursuit of pleasures, and

at the same time don't see our pleasures as a,

and our own enjoyment of that as an enemy...

What to say?

That this sort of self-penance as a way of self-torture and so on,

that that has no relevance.

Instead, finding a natural balance so that we can learn,

reflect and meditate, be active in a way that is meaningful

for ourselves and for others, and make the best

of our opportunity as human beings.

So that's one Buddhist teaching that we

will often hear, a general Buddhist advice.

And then on a philosophical or, in terms of the way things are,

a way of avoiding extremes would be,

from sort of basic Buddhist philosophical point of view,

would be to say that there is no self.

There is no permanent, enduring, controlling individual

because such an individual cannot be found under analysis.

And at the same time it is not the case, so there is no one

in this way, who continues from one situation to the next,

and from one life to the next, and at the same time,

so that would be the extreme of permanence.

But at the same time avoiding the nihilist conclusion,

or misunderstanding, which would be to say that

there is someone here now, an individual,

but that individual ceases at the time of death.

So that would be one way of arriving at a sense of a middle.

So the way the middle is defined and explained depends on

which context we are at, at the Buddhist teachings.

But there is always this sense of a middle. And in the

Mādhyamaka sense, what is then the Mādhyamaka sense of a middle?

This we will get to right away tomorrow when we look at the

homage, Nāgārjuna's homage to the teacher.

And we will see that from this perspective of

profound emptiness, the idea that there is something,

whether it's a person, or whether it's physical factors,

the mind, mental processes, or an interplay of those--

as long as there is any sense that such things are there and

exist, then that is the extreme of permanence or eternalism.

And at the same time, to then conclude that hence

there is nothing, is the extreme of nihilism.

So, as they say, giving up completely

both of the extremes, the wise do not even remain in the middle.

Because, if there are no extremes, if those extremes have been transcended,

then the very idea of a center also loses its meaning.

So we could say, that profound middle beyond extremes,

the non-middle, the middle without any middle,

is the one that Nāgārjuna delivers insight into through this treatise.

In other words, it's the kind of middle that the

Buddha talks about in the Prajñāpāramitā teachings,

which are full of those statements.

And perhaps we can state statements of this kind,

that reality is not in terms of object and subject,

object and agent, and yet it is not without object and agent,

for example. That is a quotation from

one of the short Prajñāpāramitā sūtras.

And the Prajñāpāramitā literature abounds with this kind of

statement, that we may feel it sounds profound,

we may feel that it sounds nonsensical. Whatever the case is,

it's probably hard to say what it really should mean.

The fact, regardless of all of this is,

that Prajñāpāramitā sūtras abound with that sort of discourse.

So Nāgārjuna in his "Root of the Middle Way," lays out a path

that can be taken through the use of our own simple critical analysis,

our own intellect, that leads-- he will sort of promise us,

that if you follow along on this journey,

then you will see what these statements

really mean. Not just as a matter of belief,

but through, you will understand profoundly, and on that basis

it is then possible to gain flawless realization.

So tomorrow we will begin, I think, with

the homage, which is Nāgārjuna's homage,

but it's also, the very same verses occur

in one of the short Prajñāpāramitā sūtras,

where the Buddha speaks to Śakra,

the king of the gods in the heaven of the 33.

So he teaches profound Prajñāpāramitā along the lines

that I just tried to convey, like reality and the Prajñāpāramitā

are not in terms of object, agent and action,

yet they are also not in terms of object, agent and action.

So what do we make of that?

The middle that Nāgārjuna speaks about in the

title of the treatise is also that which he brings up here,

when he says, "That which originates dependently, does not

cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go,

is not annihilated and is not permanent, is not different and not the same.

To the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete

pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha I bow down."

So there we see dependent origination,

dependent origination which is shown to be

beyond ending and coming into being, going and coming and so on.

So that's where we'll begin tomorrow.

Every day let's try to keep ample time for dialogue, so contrary to today.

And let's start in that way also tomorrow.

So whatever I've been going on about today,

if you can remember any of it, try and think,

what makes sense, what does not make sense, or what is unclear.

And let's begin tomorrow talking about that.

And we'll probably continue with that framework throughout the whole thing.

Thank you very much for today and see you again and again.

[Laughter].
Welcome everybody to this series of explorations and contemplations.
I'm looking forward to exploring and contemplating together.

I thought that we could try to approach this class

as an exercise in awareness of dependent origination,

and so see how organically and dynamically that can transpire and what we can learn together

in this way by contemplating the profound "Verses of The Root of The Middle Way."

So this is Buddhist philosophy of the most classic

form possible. I think we can safely say, no?

Nāgārjuna certainly has a claim to being

Buddhism's most renowned philosopher.

There are many, of course, but that's a good case for saying that if you have to

pick one, it would be Nāgārjuna-- the most influential philosopher.

And Nāgārjuna is known also in the tradition that we are

particularly informed by here in this region and at this institute.

In that tradition, Nāgārjuna is considered a charioteer, someone who was able to open

a path to the wisdom of the perfection of insight, the Prajñāpāramitā, independently.

Meaning by the power, his own power of insight and intelligence, enabled him to deliver the intent

of the profound Prajñāpāramitā teachings in a way that is accessible for human beings like us.

In particular, a path to the profound insight, which is non-conceptual and beyond

all constructs, which nonetheless relies on constructs in a very skillful fashion,

that encourages us to be critical and use our capacity for

critical thinking, reasoning to the very best, to our very best.

So, I think we can say that that is one of the real highlights of Nāgārjuna's profound approach

is that he is able to deliver a way of going about things rationally,

by means of logic and analysis, in a way that allows ourselves

to question profoundly our own most deepest convictions.

So through Nāgārjuna's skillful approach, we are able to ask ourselves

questions, that perhaps we would otherwise never be able to formulate.

Not to mention really pursue those questions, but even just

they wouldn't occur to us, that something of this sort could be questioned.

So Nāgārjuna invites us to, in this way, follow him on a journey to insight,

that very much is about looking at ourselves: at our own beliefs, at our own core beliefs,

and then questioning how well founded those core beliefs really are.

So in other words this is a journey that takes us into

emptiness and dependent origination.

And that teaching of emptiness and dependent origination is,

we can say, the hallmark of the Buddha's teaching.

That's also what we will see in the homage that Nāgārjuna pays

to the teacher, the teacher of teachers, the king of teachers, the Buddha.

at the beginning of the treatise, he praises the Buddha as

this perfect teacher, because of being able to show emptiness and dependent origination.

It's a great challenge, of course, to try to facilitate

that kind of contemplation in a genuine fashion.

Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche has nonetheless asked me to do this,

and I'm also happy to do it because it is a very rewarding,

tremendously rewarding exercise that we can do together and

use each other as witnesses and real partners and helpers

in this process of coming to, hopefully,

increasingly profound insight into emptiness and dependent origination.

So Rinpoche just yesterday, I think it was, said something

to the effect that, the Buddha's teaching is characterized by these four seals, right?

Those four summaries of the Buddhahdharma.

That are that all conditioned things are impermanent,

everything involved, associated with negative emotions is painful.

All factors, all phenomena, all things are empty and devoid of self.

And finally, passing beyond suffering is peaceful liberation.

So, of those, Rinpoche said, the first of those,

that all conditioned things, meaning everything that is

the product of causes and conditions, is also impermanent.

Or just the fact of impermanence, the impermanence of things,

that whatever was built will have to fall,

that whatever meeting took place will have to disperse,

that birth ends in death. Those facts of impermanence are not unknown to us.

It's something that we know, and it's also something that

is quite widely acknowledged in the world's religions.

So it's a hallmark of, this is a key content of the Buddha's teachings.

It's something that always has to be there

in the context of any aspect of Buddhist teachings.

It has to fit with this message. But at the same time,

it's also something that is quite well known in the world.

Perhaps we don't spend all that much time thinking about impermanence

and just how impermanent things are, but it's not that we aren't aware

of this. We are, and we have been for as long as we can remember.

So how about the next of the four maxims,

that everything associated with negative emotions is painful?

So Rinpoche said that's also not uniquely Buddhist

to say that, to say that craving, aggression and ignorance,

close-mindedness, that those are not factors for good. It's not that this

will make us happy, but that there's a clear link with suffering there.

It's also something that we know from experience and the way

we think also acknowledges this, even if we aren't Buddhist.

It's something that the world's religions too acknowledge. It's not

as such uniquely Buddhist to say that these negative emotions are,

and what is associated with those is also painful, or suffering, or stress,

whichever way we may try to translate the term 'Dukkha' in Pali, Sanskrit.

So where do these negative emotions come from? That's perhaps not so clear to us.

But the fact that they have this association with suffering is quite well known.

But then Rinpoche said emptiness and no-self, that is not

something that is very well acknowledged, very widely acknowledged.

It's not something that we can say we know probably from experience

already, and it's not something that we can say that we understand already,

unless we are already steeped in this kind of

process of learning, reflecting and meditating.

And it's not something that is very widely acknowledged in

the world's religions, philosophical systems and so on either.

In fact it seems in many ways contrary to what we are used to thinking,

and it seems contrary to the way we experience things.

Right? I very naturally believe that I am here in a situation together with you.

It is so obvious to me that this is the case that really

I wouldn't question it under normal circumstances.

I would just be here and there would be tons of questions that I could

ask about this event and myself and you and what's going on here.

Many, many questions could be asked, but that

very question would probably not come up.

Am I here?

It's a dumb question, no?

And if it is asked, then also typically we can think a little bit

about that, as we approach the treatise that we will be studying here.

Just asking a question like that, no? We can ask ourselves

that question, how does it feel to suddenly ask ourselves

Am I here? Or who am I to be here?

How does that feel? How easy or not does such a question come to us?

And then also think, what might the reaction be, if we bring

up a question like that among others in different contexts.

At home with the family, what would happen, if suddenly

at the breakfast table I tell to my family: "Am I here?"

What would happen at the workplace, if I say that?

Either in some sort of work situation or in the break, whatever.

With my friends, what will happen if I asked these questons?

Is there a kind of place where this question would fit in?

Is there some kind of group that I know, where this

question would be like at least an okay question to ask?

Because I think in many of these cases it would be

to say, that it would be awkward to ask that question, is an understatement, no?

It would be asking for trouble certainly, no?

And why is that? So what I would like us to try together

during this course is to, in the spirit of the treatise that we study,

to keep asking ourselves these questions as we go.

So why is it, that first of all it's so unlikely

that I would begin to ask myself, am I here or not?

And why is it the case that it's such an awkward question

to ask, or even uncomfortable question to ask?

For me it's awkward to ask it and for those who

hear it they will also feel concerned, probably.

They will be concerned about me and they will be baffled.

If there was a good atmosphere before, then it's

kind of broken by asking something of this kind.

So why is that? Let's try to... So, Rinpoche also highlighted,

when I asked him for guidance on how to approach this course,

he also highlighted the way His Holiness the Dalai Lama

encourages a combination of analysis and rest.

So I would like us to try to do the same here also, during the

classes and during the day and the nights that will unfold

as we go over the next couple of months, to bring

whatever we think of here and the analysis to mind.

And then a lot of that analysis has to do with asking questions.

And then allowing ourselves to be informed by

those questions and informed by our own reactions,

the reactions that we get from others

and our own understanding as that begins to unfold.

Let us give ourselves time to be as informed as we can by that.

So, in other words to try to approach the whole

process of learning, reflecting and meditating,

which, as we know, should be an integrated process

that never really has only one element going on.

Well, an integrated process where none of these

three elements is divorced from the others,

where they are mutually reinforcing.

So, in this way we will be relying on the framework

of analytic meditation and then resting meditation.

Which both have a very long and amazing history.

The analytic approach is what is upheld in scholarly institutions,

meaning all the way back to the origins

of the Buddhist teachings in the world.

There have been teaching and listening and contemplation situations,

where the Buddhas followers have tried to comprehend,

ascertain and clarify, elaborate upon the teachings.

So also there are very old institutions for doing that

in India, in places like Nālandā and Vikramaśilā,

they have a good claim to being the world's first universities.

You could argue that, if we want to find

places where knowledge was cherished,

not just spiritual knowledge, not just religious knowledge and

not just knowledge of one particular spiritual or religious tradition,

but the whole array of philosophy and religious views that were

at play in India in those days, were also studied at those institutions.

And so were the arts and the sciences as one had them in those days.

So there is a good case, we can say, for certainly saying that

Nālandā, Vikramaśilā and institutions of that sort

are among the very first examples that we have of the idea of a university.

So in those places one learns and reflects on the

Buddhist teachings in a very comprehensive way.

And that tradition is very important to recognize,

alive still and well in the world today.

And it's one of the really profound facts

of this place, the Rangjung Yeshe Institute.

That it's a place where we can enjoy access to that tradition,

by learning from experts who are steeped in philosophical learning,

who have perhaps joined a monastic institution

when they were very young as children.

They enrolled and began a long process of studies,

which is an ongoing process on a daily basis.

Waking up early in the morning, reciting

scriptures that are to be studied later in the day.

Then we have expert teachers, who lecture

on those, that's a very lively conversation.

The teacher will ask penetrating questions and inquire among the students, the students will,

in the same way try to come up with the most pertinent and sharpest questions they can, to the teacher.

And there is this whole tradition of debating at length,

and very actively, the purport of the teachings.

So, basically the whole day is, once you join the monastic college, then your whole

day is steeped in learning, reflecting and meditating in this comprehensive way.

So if you go about things in that way with a sincere mind and with a

good motivation for many years, for nine years, ten years, twelve years,

and often this process continuous and the great scholars never stop studying of course.

As they teach many sessions a day of very different kinds of scriptural subject matter,

they also inquire with other scholars and discuss. They compose

their own writings, which then receive critique from others and so on.

So there's a very vibrant traditional

learning environment, which is still here and accessible.

And of course it's very different to study with someone who comes

from that tradition, because he or she will be really, it will be such,

will have absorbed so much of this wisdom, this comprehensive

approach to learning, reflecting and meditating

that they often really radiate a special kind of

intelligence, that is difficult to find elsewhere.

So it's a wonderful fact that this kind

of approach is still alive in the world.

and Rinpoche asked me to go through the Root Verses here in the text

of the "Root of the Middle Way."

And then the hope is, that as we study the Root Verses together,

you can after that, perhaps it will be somewhat easier for you to connect with the vast and

profound scholarship that is here with us alive in the traditional approach to learning.

So that you can receive teachings from real experts in the

scriptural, commentarial traditions, and that's a wonderful thing.

Once you begin to get a sense of where

this is going, let's see if we do that, yeah?

Because where is it going? That's one of the key questions

that we will keep in mind throughout all of this,

but once it gets to you, let's say it like that, then it is very wonderful

to have accessible, elaborate, comprehensive teaching in the commentarial literature,

and also people who can explain that.

Those commentaries on the "Root of the Middle Way,"

all the way from the times in India and up

until today, are very different from each other.

The points that they make, the approach, the way they

understand what's going on in the "Root of the Middle Way,"

of course you can say it's all Buddhist teachings, and certainly it is,

but it's Buddhist teaching presented in many very different ways,

and often there will be debates, and fierce

debate, about what is right and what is wrong.

That kind of debate is something that one can really benefit from,

if, in particular, I believe, if one has some sense,

or if one has been taken by the issues that come up in this context, then it's

very enriching to be able to listen to extremely well-studied and brilliant minds

who can develop a whole position around what

you just have one or two thoughts about.

Those thoughts were very important, but to then hear someone develop a whole worldview

out of that little insight that you arrived at in your own contemplation, is wonderful.

And in particular, if there are then different worldviews, that are equally

possible and realizable, based on the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā,

then so much the better. So there's a real wealth of

understanding, insight there to be discovered.

Once we have gone through the root text here, if any of you

feel like studying with a real expert in Mādhyamaka,

someone who can bring alive these commentarial traditions

and the debates also between them, then I would be very happy.

Then I would consider this class successful. If you get that inspiration and that interest

and that courage that it takes to enter this kind of immersive philosophical study.

That's about the analytic approach.

So, in the analytic approach one uses basically two things.

One uses scripture, the teachings of the Buddha,

and then those treatises that we just talked about.

The treatises and the commentaries on the words of

the Buddha and the great followers of the Buddha.

So it's a still emerging body of literature that one

studies, but not just in a passive sense of course,

subjecting whatever is taught there, to critical analysis.

So reasoning and logic is the other key factor.

There's scripture and reasoning. Those are the two tools, so to speak,

that are used in this process of gaining insight in the scholarly institutions,

in the scholarly tradition. And that's a process again, that takes

typically many years and can go on for a lifetime very easily.

But at any rate it's something that requires time and effort.

Then there is the approach of the yogi, the approach of free rest,

which can be a shortcut at times if one is of the right kind.

Meaning, if one is able to, first of all have

the fortune of meeting a qualified teacher,

and if one has the fortune of being able to see

that qualified teacher as a qualified teacher.

And not just as a qualified teacher, but with a whole lot of openness.

In fact, for the oral instructions that are

at the heart of this practice of the yogi, free rest,

it's not very much a matter of understanding them and

thinking about them, it's much more a question of applying them.

So in other words, for one to be able to really benefit from that approach,

one has to be very open and confident and beyond doubt in a way.

Otherwise, if one keeps contemplating what the instructions are

then one isn't applying them. That's quite logical.

As long as one is wandering about the character of a practical

instruction, for that long one isn't making use of it.

It could be a practical instruction for anything.

If I read the manual for turning on the radio, then while I read and

think about how I might turn on the radio, I'm not turning it on.

But the manual is there for me to figure out

how to turn it on, and indeed turn it on.

So, if my encounter with the oral instructions becomes

basically accumulating learning about oral instructions,

and in my heart of hearts still wondering about how they should

be applied, then it's not the yogi's approach of rest, right?

But if one is of that kind, it is said, then it is possible

to shortcut this whole approach of learning and reflecting,

and arrive at profound liberating insight in very short time.

But it takes a very special person to be like that.

We can ask ourselves, am I of that kind?

Perhaps we are, but probably not. Especially these days

when there is such an emphasis on, and for good reasons,

an emphasis on being critical and not accepting things

at face value, at questioning. That's what we learn in school

And as a matter of fact, of course, if we give up that,

we won't be very successful in the world as it is today.

We need to be skeptical, critical, asking questions,

do it skillfully at the right time and so on. But nonetheless,

if we give up that critical bent, then we don't get anywhere.

And that's also what our parents will tell us,

when we are small, that's what our teachers will tell us.

And so it becomes second nature, and we think that we can't

allow ourselves to be any other way, which is generally true.

But when it then comes to oral instructions,

we also think that this is how it is.

And then it is possible that we can have this

very strong interest in learning meditation,

and really being fed up with scholarly learning

and just wanting to get to meditation practice.

And yet, when we get the real key to it all, then that key

becomes our focal point that we then begin to question,

and ask ourselves questions about, rather than using it.

Now when we do analyze and investigate, in particular

the subject matter that we will be concerned with here,

then every so often, quite continuously, there will be

points when we think, oh! Whatever, however our reaction may be,

that's also something that I would like if we can try to

sort of, notice, most importantly for ourselves.

When I come to understand something, then what is my reaction?

But there will be those points all the time.

There will be points of great irritation,

and great... And then there will also be times when we think

that a new insight has arisen in our minds.

So when that happens, then we can allow ourselves

to just be with that, so to speak.

Not as a big program and now I have to sit and focus on that necessarily,

but just rather than skipping over it almost

and right into the next thing for analysis.

Try to just take it in on a deeper level.

We can try to acknowledge, in as open a

fashion as we can, what this means for us,

what it means for the world, what we have come to understand.

So that's a way... So at that point we are no longer

maintaining the scripture and reasoning framework,

we just allow ourselves to benefit from whatever we saw.

So that is a simple way of embarking on this yogic path of free rest.

And we do it whenever there is a sense of doubts and questions disappearing.

So in this way we can combine the two.

Which is what I mentioned a long while ago,

that we can try to rely on analytic meditation,

resolving the view through learning and reflection.

And then also the yogic approach, the direct approach of free rest.

And that is what His Holiness has encouraged us

to do and that's what Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche told me.

Please take His Holiness' advice and see,

if you can all go about things in that way.

And if we do that, then I think we have a good chance

of really benefiting from this process,

because they really go very well together.

It takes a lot of energy and focus and

hard work to maintain the critical spirit.

It's not so much the case that the concepts that we

will be introduced to here in the Mūlamadhyamaka

are terribly complex.

There will be some Buddhist frameworks that will be brought up,

but it's very limited stuff and very basic notions,

that will be presented typically.

So that's not the challenge, it's not that

we have to compare to learning Abhidharma,

this is a breeze, there's nothing of that sort of exotic,

complex, philosophical framework that has to be learned.

And it's not so much a matter either of

constructing arguments and developing a view either.

So that's not the challenge here really.

It's more a challenge to keep being as critical

as we would like to think of ourselves as being.

If that makes sense.

I like to think of myself as someone who is

not easily convinced when people say something.

I like to think that I have a sort of sound,

critical capacity, that I'm happy to apply.

If a politician argues something, then

I'm not just there to cheer, but I think,

and if I find it justified then I will applaud.

The same with the scientific idea, not just because

some famous scientist has said this is how it is,

so I cheer and change my worldview. I try to understand.

That's the kind of view of myself that I'd like to maintain,

that I'm this very astute and careful person.

I think often we know that we aren't like that

a whole lot of the time, but I think each one of us,

we have that with us too.

We'd like to think of ourselves, and for good reasons,

why should we think otherwise?

We'd like to think of ourselves as people who

don't get carried away by whatever people say,

that we want to keep our two feet on the ground and

make sure that we are on the same page as the ones

that we communicate with, that we are not just running off

in any direction that people tell us to go.

I think, that much probably we all have

the aspiration to be that kind of person.

But the way the reasoning works in the Mūlamadhyamaka

is very penetrating and unrelenting.

So, it can become very frustrating to be asked again

and again questions that we feel we cannot answer.

And yet we feel that we should be able to answer them.

So the challenge, what really requires stamina,

is to say I am going to be that person,

that critical, careful person throughout this whole process.

I'm not going to just give in and say,

"Oh yeah, Nāgārjuna, you're so great, and now I understand,

and please leave me alone." Of course we can do that anytime, that's fine.

And often people do that, and I do that myself also,

and it can be even quite virtuous to do that, perhaps.

But it also... not the last part, please leave me alone,

is probably not virtuous, no?

But there must be some virtue in cheering nonetheless, yeah?

So, if we do that, then basically we prevent ourselves from gaining

what is really there to be gained in the Mūlamadhyamakakārikā.

It's crucial that we keep up the stamina

and that we are honest to ourselves,

and that we try to maintain this sort of image of ourselves

as careful, critical, discerning people.

And not in order to present ourselves

that way to others, but in our heart of hearts,

taking our own views, our own beliefs seriously.

And that is something that I think we all owe ourselves, no?

If we don't take our own core beliefs seriously,

that is really pathetic, no?

That's a wasted life, no? It's as if we don't live, no?

If we say, "Yeah, I really feel, I really believe this way, but so what?"

What kind of life is that, no?

So, that's the kind of, that is the kind of courage and the kind of

energy that we need to muster in a continuous way as we go, yeah?

So that's demanding, and then it can be very rewarding

on many levels to have the free approach of resting.

Whenever we then get a little relief, by all means take it.

And don't just think now, but okay, next thing, yeah?

So try to take that relief and see what it does to us.

to our being, our actions, our orientation.

And then it's exactly eleven o'clock.

Oh, we still have fifteen minutes, that's wonderful, fortunate.

So yeah, that's about the sort of approach

that I thought we should try to take, no?

In this period that we are together, and try to see it as

not just spending some time in the mornings doing a class together,

but as a sort of whole process, day and night.

Living and breathing this stuff, yeah!

That is actually the most meaningful and natural way to go about it.

It's not very meaningful and not very natural to confine this kind of analysis to some,

to some compartment in our life, where we are concerned with Mādhyamaka philosophy.

It's not like so many other things in life that works perfectly well, no?

Like, I take my Spanish class on Thursday

evening, perhaps, and that's fine, no?

Then I train every morning, half an hour, and that's it, yeah?

I don't have to, unless that is all what is important for me in that period

of my life, then I don't need to think in Spanish all the time, right?

And mathematics and so on, especially when we

have many things to learn, then it doesn't work.

I can't be all about Spanish, all about

mathematics, all about cooking 24/7, no?

That just doesn't work.

So, often we do have to say, "That time is when I do this," and so on.

And of course we will have formal sessions here in the morning,

but because what we are concerned with here

is of such core significance for our own understanding of ourselves,

who we are, what the world is, that's why to really benefit

and to approach this whole learning process in the most natural way,

we have to bring it to mind repeatedly.

And we can do that in these two ways.

We can work with our intellect and the teachings

and the reasoning that we are presented with in the text.

So we should do that as much as we can,

and we can do it by taking in whatever

insights we arrive at, as we just talked about.

So in that way it will be this mutually reinforcing interplay of

analytic meditation and the yogis' style of free-rest meditation.

So, how is it?

I screen share?

Yeah, that's the title, right, of the text,

The Mūlamadhyamakakārikā by Nāgārjuna.

So we talked a little bit about Nāgārjuna already, and this text is...

Nāgārjuna is associated with very many different kinds of Buddhist teaching,

but this one is probably the most renowned of his treatises.

Otherwise, in the Tibetan tradition and elsewhere too,

Nāgārjuna is known for many different philosophical works

and also for philosophy of both sūtra and mantra,

and for commentaries on sūtra and mantra.

But this one is probably the one,

his most well-known and influential treatise.

So it's called "Insight" and then "The Stanzas,"

because we'll be studying "The Root Verses of the Middle Way,"

Madhyamaka, in Sanskrit.

So that Middle Way is an important Buddhist concept.

The Buddhist teaching is presented always

as a balance and avoiding extreme positions.

In all contexts of Buddhist teaching,

there is this sense of a flawless middle,

where you don't fall into either extreme.

That's in terms of conduct.

We hear the Buddha teaching to the monks and the nuns that they should not,

and to lay followers too of course, that they should not

be carried away by sense pleasures,

and at the same time they should not

subject themselves to hardship for the sake of hardship.

But in finding a golden means where

we are not carried away and waste our time as humans

in the blind pursuit of pleasures, and

at the same time don't see our pleasures as a,

and our own enjoyment of that as an enemy...

What to say?

That this sort of self-penance as a way of self-torture and so on,

that that has no relevance.

Instead, finding a natural balance so that we can learn,

reflect and meditate, be active in a way that is meaningful

for ourselves and for others, and make the best

of our opportunity as human beings.

So that's one Buddhist teaching that we

will often hear, a general Buddhist advice.

And then on a philosophical or, in terms of the way things are,

a way of avoiding extremes would be,

from sort of basic Buddhist philosophical point of view,

would be to say that there is no self.

There is no permanent, enduring, controlling individual

because such an individual cannot be found under analysis.

And at the same time it is not the case, so there is no one

in this way, who continues from one situation to the next,

and from one life to the next, and at the same time,

so that would be the extreme of permanence.

But at the same time avoiding the nihilist conclusion,

or misunderstanding, which would be to say that

there is someone here now, an individual,

but that individual ceases at the time of death.

So that would be one way of arriving at a sense of a middle.

So the way the middle is defined and explained depends on

which context we are at, at the Buddhist teachings.

But there is always this sense of a middle. And in the

Mādhyamaka sense, what is then the Mādhyamaka sense of a middle?

This we will get to right away tomorrow when we look at the

homage, Nāgārjuna's homage to the teacher.

And we will see that from this perspective of

profound emptiness, the idea that there is something,

whether it's a person, or whether it's physical factors,

the mind, mental processes, or an interplay of those--

as long as there is any sense that such things are there and

exist, then that is the extreme of permanence or eternalism.

And at the same time, to then conclude that hence

there is nothing, is the extreme of nihilism.

So, as they say, giving up completely

both of the extremes, the wise do not even remain in the middle.

Because, if there are no extremes, if those extremes have been transcended,

then the very idea of a center also loses its meaning.

So we could say, that profound middle beyond extremes,

the non-middle, the middle without any middle,

is the one that Nāgārjuna delivers insight into through this treatise.

In other words, it's the kind of middle that the

Buddha talks about in the Prajñāpāramitā teachings,

which are full of those statements.

And perhaps we can state statements of this kind,

that reality is not in terms of object and subject,

object and agent, and yet it is not without object and agent,

for example. That is a quotation from

one of the short Prajñāpāramitā sūtras.

And the Prajñāpāramitā literature abounds with this kind of

statement, that we may feel it sounds profound,

we may feel that it sounds nonsensical. Whatever the case is,

it's probably hard to say what it really should mean.

The fact, regardless of all of this is,

that Prajñāpāramitā sūtras abound with that sort of discourse.

So Nāgārjuna in his "Root of the Middle Way," lays out a path

that can be taken through the use of our own simple critical analysis,

our own intellect, that leads-- he will sort of promise us,

that if you follow along on this journey,

then you will see what these statements

really mean. Not just as a matter of belief,

but through, you will understand profoundly, and on that basis

it is then possible to gain flawless realization.

So tomorrow we will begin, I think, with

the homage, which is Nāgārjuna's homage,

but it's also, the very same verses occur

in one of the short Prajñāpāramitā sūtras,

where the Buddha speaks to Śakra,

the king of the gods in the heaven of the 33.

So he teaches profound Prajñāpāramitā along the lines

that I just tried to convey, like reality and the Prajñāpāramitā

are not in terms of object, agent and action,

yet they are also not in terms of object, agent and action.

So what do we make of that?

The middle that Nāgārjuna speaks about in the

title of the treatise is also that which he brings up here,

when he says, "That which originates dependently, does not

cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go,

is not annihilated and is not permanent, is not different and not the same.

To the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete

pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha I bow down."

So there we see dependent origination,

dependent origination which is shown to be

beyond ending and coming into being, going and coming and so on.

So that's where we'll begin tomorrow.

Every day let's try to keep ample time for dialogue, so contrary to today.

And let's start in that way also tomorrow.

So whatever I've been going on about today,

if you can remember any of it, try and think,

what makes sense, what does not make sense, or what is unclear.

And let's begin tomorrow talking about that.

And we'll probably continue with that framework throughout the whole thing.

Thank you very much for today and see you again and again.

[Laughter].
video
play-rounded-outline
17:26

Root of The Middle Way – Session 01

Embracing the Profundity of Buddhist Philosophy
Teacher: 
Location: 
  • Rangjung Yeshe Institute - Nepal
Description >>

Session 1 revolves around the introduction to the profound teachings of Buddhism, emphasizing the significant role of texts like the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā. It addresses the relevance of diverse translations and their contribution to understanding Buddhist thought. Throughout the lecture, the interconnectedness of all phenomena via the principle of dependent origination is explored, challenging attendees’ perceptions of reality. The lecture highlights the Buddha’s wisdom, interconnectedness in both external and internal worlds, and the nuanced teachings of Nāgārjuna. By engaging with these concepts, participants are encouraged to reflect on their beliefs and biases, especially concerning the nature of the self, leading to a deeper comprehension of existence and causality.

Video
Audio
play-rounded-outline
 
Let's begin by thinking about what was brought up yesterday and perhaps you have some thoughts, responses, etc. That would be nice to hear. But before that we should also think of what it is that we are about to do here, profound contemplation of the nature of reality with the help of a very extraordinary treatise, delivered by a very extraordinary master, one of the foremost followers of the Buddha and tremendously impactful figure in the transmission of the Buddhadharma. So we should make sure to acknowledge just how rare and profound it is to be face to face with something of this sort and make the wish that it is meaningful what we do, not so much for ourselves, but acknowledging the impact that something like this can have for absolutely everyone. So with a mind for all sentient beings, let's begin the session.
And yes, was there some response, thoughts
on what we tried to address yesterday? You are welcome to share.
Anything sounded particularly...

challenging or particularly compelling, or particularly
anything you are welcome to share a little bit. You don't have to but if you have any thoughts. Because I guess I tried to speak about methodology to some extent yesterday and that is really key to getting something out of this type of study. There are many ways that this looks like traditional philosophical learning and study. But there are also many ways in which this is very very different. And so to really get a feeling for how to approach this text in a constructive way is crucial; and how to approach means what frame of mind to be in oneself, what to expect, what not to expect. All of these issues are extremely important.
But if there is nothing at this point, then we can begin.
Maybe not. I should say something about the translations and the texts that we have available here. And in that regard, those of you who have access to Teams you will find somewhere on Teams that there is a book available, a book printed in China by Professor Yao-Hsing Xiong-Yi, who has prepared a comparative edition of the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā where he has edited the Sanskrit text. He has edited the Chinese translation by Kumarajiva and also provided a Chinese translation, a contemporary Chinese translation, and he has an edition also of the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā that is found in Tibetan translation in the Derge Kagyü And it's very high quality, his editions, there's a general consensus about. So it's very fortunate and extremely kind of Professor Yi that he has agreed to make that book available to us all as we study the text. But of course please acknowledge that this is just for the sake of this course and not something to distribute obviously. So this is a very special kindness that he has showed us, and it's wonderful that we can use this very authoritative work as we go. And then in terms of English translations, there are also many that are available. And I, in particular, would like to recommend the translation by Katsura and Siderits.
So a few years ago,
a decade or so and that is a very lucid and clear translation and it is especially very helpful because it has also lucid, clear commentary, which moreover is based on the extant four commentaries from India that we have access to in the case of Candrakīrti, in both Sanskrit and Tibetan, but otherwise in Tibetan. So as the commentary proceeds in this translation, then you will be able to hear remarks and points made by the classic authors of India, the four that we have extant works of today. So that is a really special and valuable resource for reading the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā. But there are many others because this text is so important. It has been translated many times and each translation has its advantages. And as a translator it's always necessary to make choices obviously. That's what translation is about. So whichever way you go, there will also be, when you go in one direction you can't go in another. So that also speaks to the value of having many different translations available. Sometimes translations can themselves become a bit like a commentary to the text. So I would encourage you to take a good look around what is available.
In this course here we will be using in terms
of the English translation, the translation that is contained in Mabja Jangchub Tsondru commentary on the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā. And that is a translation made based on the Tibetan version of the text, not from Sanskrit as what is the case with Siderits and Katsura. Their translation is based on the Sanskrit. So we use Mabja's commentary and not because I translated it, I mean probably partially because of that because then I am more acquainted with that than other translations. So there is a certain familiarity advantage, hopefully. But also because that commentary really is quite amazing. Not to speak of the quality of the translation, of course, we can say has many shortcomings. But the text itself is really quite wonderful, very comprehensive and yet not overly elaborate. So that is what is in English translated as and published as "Ornament of Reason." So it is a commentary that is comprehensive, it is quite a thick book, but it is not a commentary of the kind that I was going to say digresses, it is not really digression, it is a feature of many amazing commentaries and treatises. But there is this tradition or there is a certain style of making a commentary where the author will every once in a while and it can happen seemingly for no particular reason suddenly there is a whole opening of a distinct discussion which is almost like a little essay in itself. So that is a very exciting way of...it provides for very exciting text but also one that obviously will take one away in many different directions. So Mabja's commentary is not like that, it is always focused on the text itself and yet it is quite exhaustive. And it is a commentary that has had very much influence in Tibet, not necessarily explicitly so, but it is clear that Mabja's commentary has been key for the development of Mādhyamaka thought in Tibet. In particular Mabja's commentary is one of the first, very first to rely on Candrakīrti as an authority in interpreting the Mādhyamaka.
And in particular he makes an effort to work
with arguments and reason in a way that is deeply influenced by Dharmakīrti. So that kind of approach of combining Dharmakīrti and Candrakīrti, of course, those of you who have studied and those of you who are studying the history of Mādhyamaka thought will know that that becomes a very prominent feature, something that people do. Although Candrakīrti is strongly critical of Dharmakīrti, he is moved to nevertheless rely on much of the apparatus that you have in Dharmakīrti. So Mabja's text is a very rich example of that and perhaps the first one to do so. So it starts a whole tradition. But it's also because it is of that sort, because it is an incorporation of Dharmakīrtian logic.

Like the Dharmakīrti was one of the greatest logicians of Buddhism in India, and to incorporate his framework into an exposition of Dharmakīrti will necessarily mean that there will also be a whole lot of critique of Dharmakīrti. Anyone who tries to do that will have to also say why this isn't just straight Dharmakīrti, because Candrakīrti spends a lot of time rejecting the whole project of pramāṇa. So that too is a very exciting element that you can see developed in the Mabja commentary. So I would also encourage you as course requirement those who take this course to begin by reading the full commentary to the text, then study the "Root Verses" as we do here and then at the end of the program read once more on the "Ornament of Reason" to get the full commentary once more. And then on that basis it should be possible to begin to, if we have been just somewhat successful, it should be possible then to benefit from a whole lot of Mādhyamaka literature, different commentaries and also really benefit from experts lecturing on the Mādhyamaka, as as you can find it in the traditional monastic institution or in the academic world. Many of the excellent teachers of Mādhyamaka in the academy, you should be able to also really gain something from following their courses.
So that was about the texts, the translation,
I still have to do the screen sharing. So this is the homage
that follows the title.
So after the title, the next we see is this: "That which originates dependently--dependent origination-- does not cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go, is not annihilated and is not permanent, is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha, I bow down."
So as I mentioned yesterday this is the opening
of the Mūlamādhyamakakārikā, the verses of homage to the teacher explaining why he is the perfect teacher, because he is able to present dependent origination just as it is. That homage is also found in a short, very short Prajñāpāramitā sūtra which is called the Kauśika Prajñāpāramitā. So the Buddha himself there speaking to Kauśika and a vast retinue, himself ends his discourse with these words there. But here they are brought, are spoken by, we assume, we understand by Nāgārjuna.
And they are really like a summary of the whole text.
If we understand this homage then we have understood the treatise. And if we have understood the treatise, then as the one sūtra says, those who see dependent origination see the Dharma, those who see the Dharma see the Buddha. So these are extremely profound verses. If we can with the help of a statement of this kind understand dependent origination, then so to speak we have direct perception of the Dharma and then the sūtra says direct perception of the Dharma means direct perception of the Buddha. So dependent origination that has to do with how things happen. There's a notion of things and there's a notion of something happening, and something happening which is based on something. Not just random but there's a sense of dependency. Something that, some constraints we could say on what happens and what doesn't. When certain causes, certain conditions are present then something happens, and when those are not present, then that particular thing will not happen. So it's causality if you want very matter of factly and something that I think anyone can agree is noticeable about the world, no?
That our perception is one of dependent origination.
We wouldn't perhaps say it with such a technical term,
but what we see, what we feel, what we
think, what we do, all of that is something that we see, feel, think and do in a way that is dependent on certain factors. It doesn't happen completely randomly, it doesn't happen just utterly spontaneously but it's when certain things come about that we will say something, and when that's not the case then we won't. Like if someone comes to say hello, good morning, it is quite likely that we will say something similar in response, if it is indeed morning. So another kind of causal dependence that needs to be in place. When that's the case then, if it is morning, someone comes and says good morning then it's likely that we will say good morning and had that person not come we would not say it, had that person come and said good morning in the evening we would probably say something different. It's very simple stuff but it seems very,
something that is... so one thing we
can begin to think about here at this point is, is this a principle of dependent origination that things happen and arise based on other things? Is this something that we can notice everywhere? Or is it something that applies to perhaps many things, very many things perhaps but not to everything? That is one sort of key question that we can begin to contemplate.
So perhaps we can even think of that right now.
What do you think? Is dependent origination a sense of dependency on other factors that somehow determine whether something happens or not Always the case from our experience? from what we can sort of think of and try to intellectually determine. Is it the case that absolutely everything is of this kind? Dependent on something else or not? Any suggestions?
What about space?
Yeah, so that's a good question though. What about space and why would space be different?
Because it's immaterial and yet somehow a concept that we can understand.

If it's a concept that we can understand,
concepts that we can understand, aren't they somehow causally determined or dependent?
Yes.
So then space is not anything but dependent origination, no?
And if it's not a concept that we can understand?
Why would it then be not dependent origination? What makes you think of space as an example of something that is not dependent origination? Because in a class I took one of the Khenpos was speaking about relatively, how it doesn't really fit into the category of relative or ultimate in terms of establishment, and so it seems like a bit of an outlier with respect to an example of something that we could conceive of but not necessarily be in direct contact with.
It seems that, again please?

We can see space but we cannot touch it,
and it seems to be a phenomena that has different characteristics than something that we could look at, that would have like a valid base and characteristics that we could all unanimously agree upon, or perceive similarly. It is different than something that we could all unanimously agree about? Yes. So when we are talking about whether something is dependent origination, is an example of dependent origination, then it means does the thing in question just exist as it is, independently of anything else? Or does it not? So if it is something we can see, if what we see is space, is that what we see independent of causes and conditions?
This is a beautiful way to begin actually.
No, the Buddha says beings widely proclaim that they see space but examine here the meaning how do you see space? And then that is the, I think it continues now all things, all factors are in this way. So, with space it is interesting because in some way it seems to be like an absence of things, so not a thing in itself but like the very fact that there is not a thing, and then we need to consider whether an absence of things is actually in itself a real thing, or just a concept, and if it is a concept it is obviously dependent on our own concepts basically. The other thing is if we can see it, then it must be part of dependent origination because otherwise we could not interact with it in any way.
So I question the notion of space actually
being a thing. It is for me rather an absence of things.
So if space is a concept, then concepts
arguably depend on other concepts. I guess not all philosophers will say that, there are also like self-existing concepts. But this we will have ample time to explore as we go. But yeah,
if we have a concept of something,
of red for example, then what is red? To sort of, to explain that, we have to talk about other things, no? If someone has not seen red and we want to explain what red is, then the only way that we can get at that is to do more than just say red, no? Red we will have to say, well you know, you have probably seen other colors like you saw yellow yesterday, remember? So red is also a color and so on and so forth. And that arguably is the way it is with concepts, no? That as soon as we are dealing with a concept, we are already in a web of concepts. But let's see whether that is so, no? That sounds already sort of like Buddhist philosophy. But yeah, there is something about concepts that certainly suggests dependence. And then there is, you also said if it is something that we see, so if it is something that we perceive, then perception too is something probably, you know, that takes place in a causal framework, no? It's when certain things is the case, we see certain things. And when those things are not the case, we won't see that particular thing. But again that is not necessarily the case either, no? We could have an idea of like a perception that just is what it is independently of anything else, like the perception of the truth, perhaps the ultimate truth, perhaps the perception of God. This is something that we can keep in mind. And then finally you mentioned absence, so what to do with absence? This is also something that we can really try to get a sense of what do we mean when we talk about absence, and the notion of perceiving absence or not perceiving absence, is absence perceptible or not? This is all something that we can spend time exploring. I think there were some other questions with, maybe you first, yeah?
So maybe you've been talking about something
like an independent origination, you know, if all is a sequence of cause and effects, you might think, you know, you go back to the beginning there was some first cause, like some type of unmoved mover maybe? So the unmoved mover would be something that is not causally dependent, yeah? There would certainly be, presumably that is a very wildly held position, no? Like if we believe in a... but not only if so, but if we believe in a permanent creator or in a, of all of this, someone who sets in motion all of these dependent events, then the idea with that immovable mover is precisely that, like the divine principle, or the creator, is not itself subject to causes and conditions. Because otherwise, certainly the notion of an omnipotent God cannot be maintained. No, if God, him/her/itself is dependent on causes and conditions apart from himself/herself/itself, then then it couldn't be an omnipotent God, right?
Okay, yeah, thank you.

Okay, do you think that Nāgārjuna gives a
hint to a possible answer of your question of what would not pratītyasamutpāda influenced by saying that it's the pacification of proliferation of constructs and that it's auspicious or peace, shivam? Because these two things would often be associated with an idea of, I don't know, like something like a Buddhajñāna, for instance, so that implicitly he answers this by just using these terms. Would you think that it's valid interpretation? I mean, you studied it much more. That's a brilliant question.
I think there are many ways that this can be interpreted, no?

I would say at this point,

at this point the most promising
is to... so what you were saying is that dependent origination, so you are somehow saying that the Buddhajñāna is--the Buddha's wisdom--would be an example of something that is not dependent origination, yeah? And that is this complete pacification, or the auspiciousness of the pacification of constructs, that this is something that is not dependent origination.
I think the..

like if we read the text here,
it says "that dependent, that which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go," and so forth. So in other words, dependent origination itself does not arise and does not cease, and that is the, therefore the perception of dependent origination is seeing the Dharma, and therefore seeing the Dharma is seeing the Buddha. So the question of whether the Buddha or the Buddha's wisdom is different from dependent origination sort of falls away, because it is the perception of dependent origination itself without ceasing and arising, that is the true Dharma. And the, the wisdom of that is the Buddha's wisdom. But this is something that we can go back to, there's obviously, there's an amazing rich and wonderful literature on this, yeah? This is one of the key points that have been discussed in volumes in the Tibetan literature over centuries, yeah? So that is one of the really amazing things about this text also, is that it brings you, it brings us into an environment which is so full of amazing voices and brilliantly sharp and wise minds. And it's not just that we can walk around there in awe and sort of marvelling at their... what all they can do, but we also ourselves have a real basis for appreciating what they are talking about. If we study the Mūlamādhyamakakārikā, then something of that kind, a topic of this kind that you just brought up, whether the Buddha's wisdom is dependent origination, is something that we will have... think about what could be, what from a Buddhist point of view at least, what could be more profound to think about? Like the nature of the Buddha's wisdom, what is it? And if we can say whether it's dependent origination or not, then we know a whole lot about the Buddha's wisdom. But who knows if the Buddha's wisdom is dependent origination or not? If we just, unless we have studied this already at length, then this will seem like a, yeah, wow, I guess Buddhist philosophers can say something about that, but what do I know? But believe it or not, when we just spend a little bit of time going through this, just you know, the first chapter already, our own opinion will be extremely informed. That's amazing, no? That doesn't mean that we can go, that now we are accomplished Buddhist philosophers, but it means that we know something which is really key and really central to the whole discussion. Like what could be more key and central than the very nature of causality in its relation to awakened wisdom? And this is something that we will definitely, through our own efforts of just working with the text and taking our own opinions, our own biases, our own inclinations, our own beliefs very seriously. And not by trying to follow some sort of program, philosophical program and adopt a certain set of views. It is all by focusing on what really do I mean? What do I really believe? What is my own perspective? Taking that very seriously and then allowing Nāgārjuna's critique to meet our own opinions and beliefs, in that way we will certainly arrive at a point where we can have a very meaningful dialogue with these amazing voices from the millennia, the centuries, and also very accomplished philosophers in the world today in this matter. So this is something that is very special about this text. Many other...
To learn Buddhist philosophy, as
we talked about yesterday, is something that requires a whole lot of time, a whole lot of energy, years of really focused study, learning, reflecting and trying to gain from one's knowledge in meditation.
But in this case it's possible to arrive in
the center of everything, so to speak, just by focusing on this text. That's why in many ways, or some say that the Mūlamādhyamakakārikā, although it's so profound, it is also like a perfect beginning for the whole journey of Buddhist philosophy.
So all of these things, let's note this down.
What seems to be the case in terms of dependent origination, in terms of the world as we know it, in terms of our own beliefs and perceptions? What seems to be the case about dependent origination? And also what are the candidates for not being dependent origination? Like we talked about, whether space might be so, absence,
the immovable mover,
the divine creator, whether that might be something that isn't dependent. And we talked about the Buddhist wisdom. So let's keep all of those examples in mind and any other that you can think of. So this is a good place to ponder already here. But the Buddha's teaching is certainly famed for being a teaching of dependent origination. The Buddha talks about the external world in terms of dependent origination, typically with the example, or very often, the use of an example of a seed, which when planted in the soil and the right conditions are there, will give rise to a sprout. And that sprout, again, when the assisting conditions are present, will grow to become a plant that has many leaves, can grow flowers and fruits perhaps. So this is dependent origination in the external world. But then we also know that the Buddha is not just concerned about what things happen in the external world, but primarily really concerned with how life unfolds in terms of the inner arising of dependent origination, where the first link of the 12 links of dependent origination is ignorance. And because consciousness is ignorant, then there's the karmic conditioning that plants seeds of karmic ripening in consciousness. And so, just as it is the case in the external world, consciousness will keep unfolding on that basis as seeds are planted in ignorant consciousness. They grow fruits of ignorance and defilement. And this process does not end until ignorance ends. That's why the 12 links of dependent origination are a circle. The last of the 12 links is old age and death. And old age and death is not the end of the story. Because the basic ignorance remains, there will be
a new round of birth
based on ignorance. So in the basic teachings of Buddhism this is of course a very central topic--dependent origination--coming to understand how consciousness evolves in this way, always conditioned, dependently originated, always conditioned by what took place before. And until the original misunderstanding has been set straight, then this kind of wheel is continuous, the wheel of samsara, the wheel of dissatisfying painful existence is going to continue in an unbroken fashion. So how to correct the error that maintains this? Like if the first link of dependent origination is ignorance, then there must be ignorance about something, right? If it is because of ignorance that painful existence continues life after life, death after death, then so what is this ignorance about? And in this regard the Buddha talks about our belief in self.
It is because basically I believe that I exist
as an individual separate from others, like you guys, and separate from things in the world, I am an individual who is here in the world. It is because I have this natural, if you want, perception of things that I will also, as soon as we have that kind of orientation, then with that comes a sense that I am fragile, because I am here in the world, I don't have control over the world obviously, so there are things that can threaten me. And I am also here right now in the world, but I am not all that I could be, I am not all that I would like to be, and so there are certain things in the world that I want. That comes with the very idea of self, that there is a sense of threat which is a form of fear that feeds aggression, right? Because if something then comes to hurt me, I am going to react. How could I do otherwise? If my very existence is threatened, I fight back of course. And even just to maintain my existence, it seems there are many things I need. I am not in control of my own existence and yet I exist here in the world as a distinct individual, but somehow at the mercy of other things, and there are things that I need, so craving becomes second nature too. So I am ready to become aggressive any moment, and I am also constantly in need of things. So whenever that is the case, then
it is very limited really what I can do.
What I will do is quite predictable. Indeed if someone comes to threaten, I am going to try to look as threatening as I can in return or react more strongly than that. Some way, try to find some way to overcome that threat that is present. And I will also spend a whole lot of time trying to get at the things that I feel can help me thrive in the world. So it becomes a very predictable existence, and it is also an existence that typically it is quite limited what can take place when that is the perspective. If I feel that I am someone who is basically under threat, and I need a whole lot of things, it is perhaps not the most
then that makes me feel that I have some urgent needs that
I need to take care of right now. Just if we think about what comes with the notion of self? What does it do to a mind to think in this way? I think it is a fact that when that is the case, then the scope of mind becomes very limited. It becomes very limited and what goes on in the mind will be very much determined by what is right in my face. Because those needs for survival and for thriving are the most fundamental that there is to me. So it becomes very limited and how good are we at then avoiding the threats, and how good are we at getting the things that we feel we need? Well, we can think about it, no? It seems unlikely that we will stumble upon some method that can take care of our enemies for good, it seems like. Who really believes that? That we can overcome our enemies permanently? And who really believes that it is possible to get what you need forever? So it is quite a miserable struggle that we have to face. And that is not something that Buddhist philosophy tries to... well maybe Buddhist philosophy does try to convince us about that, but it is something that we already know. And it is something that religions of the world know, it is something that philosophy has spoken about for millennia in all parts of the world too. This is, I suppose, what Rinpoche had in mind when he said these things, that impermanence and suffering are core elements of Buddhist teaching and yet they are not really uniquely Buddhist, in the sense that because this is common knowledge too,
that we are always under
threat, that there are always things that we need to get and that there is no real end in sight

So it could be of course that if we would just have this one miserable life and then or try to make the best of it, whatever we say, but a life of this kind, a life of trying to stay alive and trying to get certain things, because we can't get all that much in one life, trying to get as many nice things as we can in one life. If that type of existence would then be come to an end when we die, then that would be a sort of limited issue really, because it would be just a matter of a certain duration of experience and then naturally everything would come to an end. But the Buddha says that's not how it is though, because the very idea of self, that which creates the miserable life is actually not founded in anything factual. There is no self of the kind you think there is. In other words, there is no individual here who stands in opposition to the world, or who is a separate individual in a world outside it.
There's no enduring singular agent here.
So that is a mistake really the Buddha says. And if you see that mistake, then think about it. The reason that I thought I needed to protect myself was because I believed that I am such a thing, that I am someone who needs protection by all means. And the reason that I thought I had so many things to chase after was because I thought I am someone who can actually get things and miss things. And that's why I need to be on my toes to chase them. But what then if that's not the case? And I don't know... We can perhaps as a beginning for tomorrow we can think about the basic critique of, yeah let's do that.
The sort of general Buddhist critique of the
idea of a self, let's try to contemplate that for tomorrow, and then we meet and pick up there tomorrow. The reason that we would do that is because this opening verse is about dependent origination. And dependent origination is about causes and conditions, causes and conditions that we can notice at play in the external world, and causes and conditions that we can notice in our own experience. The Buddha is known as the teacher of dependent origination because he explains this way that we can witness dependent origination in the external world, but also see that our own experience of things, our own life, death and rebirth is conditioned. The twelve links of dependent origination is the key teaching of the Buddha. So that's what Nāgārjuna praises the Buddha for being able to do, but he also qualifies that notion of dependent origination in an extraordinary way. He says that whatever is like that, whatever is dependently arisen actually does not end, ever, and never arises. That seems to be like a cancellation of the very idea of dependent origination, no? Origination means that something comes into being, and if something comes into being, things need to go out of existence also. Otherwise what's the process of dependent origination? Coming and going...without movement, how can there be dependent origination? If everything is static then what dependent origination is there? Annihilated and permanent things, if there's nothing that is different from anything else and if we can't say that certain things are same as something else, then how to understand dependent origination? What kind of dependent origination is that, which is neither different things nor things that are of the same kind? So in other words Nāgārjuna praises the Buddha for being the teacher of dependent origination as we know he is, the wheel of dependent, the twelve links. But then he says all of that which is of this kind whether it's internally in the way of the twelve links or externally in the world, seed sprouts and so on, what have you, myriads of things, whatever is of that kind actually never arises in the first place, and never ceases. And that's why, because the Buddha shows this truth, this profound, auspicious, peaceful truth that is why he is the Teacher of teachers.
So in order to first get a little sense of
dependent origination in general in Buddhism this may be worthwhile that we think of the critique of the individual. So we're already one minute past but just very briefly the exercise that we can then do until tomorrow is to think of, "Okay do I have a notion of myself as being an individual?" And probably we will say yes. If not then that's fine also right. And please note it down and the point here again is not so much to try to get what I'm talking about, but more of course you need to somehow get a sense of what I'm trying to talk about but then on that basis it's much more important what you think. Not going along with what I say, but noting what you would say yourself in response to this. So do I have a notion of being an individual? Yes, I would say and do I have a notion of just being one individual? I would also say yes because if you call my name, I'm not going to sit and be confused for a moment thinking, "Who are you speaking to?" It's just me, that's just me, not many. Then of course if I think about it at length I can say I'm not the same person today as I was yesterday and so on, but the immediate response is sure I'm one individual.
And am I a permanent individual?
Yes, I sure am because although I say I'm not the same person today as I was yesterday it's still me. It's still me who was a different guy yesterday, but now has learned something or has, who knows what? Changed in some way so that I can now look back on myself yesterday and say, "Well it's a different person." The very fact that I can do that is evidence of my belief that I'm an enduring, and in that sense permanent individual. So at home please try to think do you agree that you are single, enduring individuals? One person? And do you agree that you stay the same in your experience? That your view of yourself is one of a lasting, enduring person? And if you say "No," then note down so that you can mention it why you don't think so. And if you think "Yes," then note down what the reasons are that you have this belief. If you say "I don't think so," then what are the reasons or the justification for having that belief? And if you say "Yes I am a single person who endures, is ongoing in time," then why do you have this belief and what is the justification of it? Yeah, thank you very much.
Let's begin by thinking about what was brought up yesterday and perhaps you have some thoughts, responses, etc. That would be nice to hear. But before that we should also think of what it is that we are about to do here, profound contemplation of the nature of reality with the help of a very extraordinary treatise, delivered by a very extraordinary master, one of the foremost followers of the Buddha and tremendously impactful figure in the transmission of the Buddhadharma. So we should make sure to acknowledge just how rare and profound it is to be face to face with something of this sort and make the wish that it is meaningful what we do, not so much for ourselves, but acknowledging the impact that something like this can have for absolutely everyone. So with a mind for all sentient beings, let's begin the session.
And yes, was there some response, thoughts
on what we tried to address yesterday? You are welcome to share.
Anything sounded particularly...

challenging or particularly compelling, or particularly
anything you are welcome to share a little bit. You don't have to but if you have any thoughts. Because I guess I tried to speak about methodology to some extent yesterday and that is really key to getting something out of this type of study. There are many ways that this looks like traditional philosophical learning and study. But there are also many ways in which this is very very different. And so to really get a feeling for how to approach this text in a constructive way is crucial; and how to approach means what frame of mind to be in oneself, what to expect, what not to expect. All of these issues are extremely important.
But if there is nothing at this point, then we can begin.
Maybe not. I should say something about the translations and the texts that we have available here. And in that regard, those of you who have access to Teams you will find somewhere on Teams that there is a book available, a book printed in China by Professor Yao-Hsing Xiong-Yi, who has prepared a comparative edition of the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā where he has edited the Sanskrit text. He has edited the Chinese translation by Kumarajiva and also provided a Chinese translation, a contemporary Chinese translation, and he has an edition also of the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā that is found in Tibetan translation in the Derge Kagyü And it's very high quality, his editions, there's a general consensus about. So it's very fortunate and extremely kind of Professor Yi that he has agreed to make that book available to us all as we study the text. But of course please acknowledge that this is just for the sake of this course and not something to distribute obviously. So this is a very special kindness that he has showed us, and it's wonderful that we can use this very authoritative work as we go. And then in terms of English translations, there are also many that are available. And I, in particular, would like to recommend the translation by Katsura and Siderits.
So a few years ago,
a decade or so and that is a very lucid and clear translation and it is especially very helpful because it has also lucid, clear commentary, which moreover is based on the extant four commentaries from India that we have access to in the case of Candrakīrti, in both Sanskrit and Tibetan, but otherwise in Tibetan. So as the commentary proceeds in this translation, then you will be able to hear remarks and points made by the classic authors of India, the four that we have extant works of today. So that is a really special and valuable resource for reading the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā. But there are many others because this text is so important. It has been translated many times and each translation has its advantages. And as a translator it's always necessary to make choices obviously. That's what translation is about. So whichever way you go, there will also be, when you go in one direction you can't go in another. So that also speaks to the value of having many different translations available. Sometimes translations can themselves become a bit like a commentary to the text. So I would encourage you to take a good look around what is available.
In this course here we will be using in terms
of the English translation, the translation that is contained in Mabja Jangchub Tsondru commentary on the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā. And that is a translation made based on the Tibetan version of the text, not from Sanskrit as what is the case with Siderits and Katsura. Their translation is based on the Sanskrit. So we use Mabja's commentary and not because I translated it, I mean probably partially because of that because then I am more acquainted with that than other translations. So there is a certain familiarity advantage, hopefully. But also because that commentary really is quite amazing. Not to speak of the quality of the translation, of course, we can say has many shortcomings. But the text itself is really quite wonderful, very comprehensive and yet not overly elaborate. So that is what is in English translated as and published as "Ornament of Reason." So it is a commentary that is comprehensive, it is quite a thick book, but it is not a commentary of the kind that I was going to say digresses, it is not really digression, it is a feature of many amazing commentaries and treatises. But there is this tradition or there is a certain style of making a commentary where the author will every once in a while and it can happen seemingly for no particular reason suddenly there is a whole opening of a distinct discussion which is almost like a little essay in itself. So that is a very exciting way of...it provides for very exciting text but also one that obviously will take one away in many different directions. So Mabja's commentary is not like that, it is always focused on the text itself and yet it is quite exhaustive. And it is a commentary that has had very much influence in Tibet, not necessarily explicitly so, but it is clear that Mabja's commentary has been key for the development of Mādhyamaka thought in Tibet. In particular Mabja's commentary is one of the first, very first to rely on Candrakīrti as an authority in interpreting the Mādhyamaka.
And in particular he makes an effort to work
with arguments and reason in a way that is deeply influenced by Dharmakīrti. So that kind of approach of combining Dharmakīrti and Candrakīrti, of course, those of you who have studied and those of you who are studying the history of Mādhyamaka thought will know that that becomes a very prominent feature, something that people do. Although Candrakīrti is strongly critical of Dharmakīrti, he is moved to nevertheless rely on much of the apparatus that you have in Dharmakīrti. So Mabja's text is a very rich example of that and perhaps the first one to do so. So it starts a whole tradition. But it's also because it is of that sort, because it is an incorporation of Dharmakīrtian logic.

Like the Dharmakīrti was one of the greatest logicians of Buddhism in India, and to incorporate his framework into an exposition of Dharmakīrti will necessarily mean that there will also be a whole lot of critique of Dharmakīrti. Anyone who tries to do that will have to also say why this isn't just straight Dharmakīrti, because Candrakīrti spends a lot of time rejecting the whole project of pramāṇa. So that too is a very exciting element that you can see developed in the Mabja commentary. So I would also encourage you as course requirement those who take this course to begin by reading the full commentary to the text, then study the "Root Verses" as we do here and then at the end of the program read once more on the "Ornament of Reason" to get the full commentary once more. And then on that basis it should be possible to begin to, if we have been just somewhat successful, it should be possible then to benefit from a whole lot of Mādhyamaka literature, different commentaries and also really benefit from experts lecturing on the Mādhyamaka, as as you can find it in the traditional monastic institution or in the academic world. Many of the excellent teachers of Mādhyamaka in the academy, you should be able to also really gain something from following their courses.
So that was about the texts, the translation,
I still have to do the screen sharing. So this is the homage
that follows the title.
So after the title, the next we see is this: "That which originates dependently--dependent origination-- does not cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go, is not annihilated and is not permanent, is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha, I bow down."
So as I mentioned yesterday this is the opening
of the Mūlamādhyamakakārikā, the verses of homage to the teacher explaining why he is the perfect teacher, because he is able to present dependent origination just as it is. That homage is also found in a short, very short Prajñāpāramitā sūtra which is called the Kauśika Prajñāpāramitā. So the Buddha himself there speaking to Kauśika and a vast retinue, himself ends his discourse with these words there. But here they are brought, are spoken by, we assume, we understand by Nāgārjuna.
And they are really like a summary of the whole text.
If we understand this homage then we have understood the treatise. And if we have understood the treatise, then as the one sūtra says, those who see dependent origination see the Dharma, those who see the Dharma see the Buddha. So these are extremely profound verses. If we can with the help of a statement of this kind understand dependent origination, then so to speak we have direct perception of the Dharma and then the sūtra says direct perception of the Dharma means direct perception of the Buddha. So dependent origination that has to do with how things happen. There's a notion of things and there's a notion of something happening, and something happening which is based on something. Not just random but there's a sense of dependency. Something that, some constraints we could say on what happens and what doesn't. When certain causes, certain conditions are present then something happens, and when those are not present, then that particular thing will not happen. So it's causality if you want very matter of factly and something that I think anyone can agree is noticeable about the world, no?
That our perception is one of dependent origination.
We wouldn't perhaps say it with such a technical term,
but what we see, what we feel, what we
think, what we do, all of that is something that we see, feel, think and do in a way that is dependent on certain factors. It doesn't happen completely randomly, it doesn't happen just utterly spontaneously but it's when certain things come about that we will say something, and when that's not the case then we won't. Like if someone comes to say hello, good morning, it is quite likely that we will say something similar in response, if it is indeed morning. So another kind of causal dependence that needs to be in place. When that's the case then, if it is morning, someone comes and says good morning then it's likely that we will say good morning and had that person not come we would not say it, had that person come and said good morning in the evening we would probably say something different. It's very simple stuff but it seems very,
something that is... so one thing we
can begin to think about here at this point is, is this a principle of dependent origination that things happen and arise based on other things? Is this something that we can notice everywhere? Or is it something that applies to perhaps many things, very many things perhaps but not to everything? That is one sort of key question that we can begin to contemplate.
So perhaps we can even think of that right now.
What do you think? Is dependent origination a sense of dependency on other factors that somehow determine whether something happens or not Always the case from our experience? from what we can sort of think of and try to intellectually determine. Is it the case that absolutely everything is of this kind? Dependent on something else or not? Any suggestions?
What about space?
Yeah, so that's a good question though. What about space and why would space be different?
Because it's immaterial and yet somehow a concept that we can understand.

If it's a concept that we can understand,
concepts that we can understand, aren't they somehow causally determined or dependent?
Yes.
So then space is not anything but dependent origination, no?
And if it's not a concept that we can understand?
Why would it then be not dependent origination? What makes you think of space as an example of something that is not dependent origination? Because in a class I took one of the Khenpos was speaking about relatively, how it doesn't really fit into the category of relative or ultimate in terms of establishment, and so it seems like a bit of an outlier with respect to an example of something that we could conceive of but not necessarily be in direct contact with.
It seems that, again please?

We can see space but we cannot touch it,
and it seems to be a phenomena that has different characteristics than something that we could look at, that would have like a valid base and characteristics that we could all unanimously agree upon, or perceive similarly. It is different than something that we could all unanimously agree about? Yes. So when we are talking about whether something is dependent origination, is an example of dependent origination, then it means does the thing in question just exist as it is, independently of anything else? Or does it not? So if it is something we can see, if what we see is space, is that what we see independent of causes and conditions?
This is a beautiful way to begin actually.
No, the Buddha says beings widely proclaim that they see space but examine here the meaning how do you see space? And then that is the, I think it continues now all things, all factors are in this way. So, with space it is interesting because in some way it seems to be like an absence of things, so not a thing in itself but like the very fact that there is not a thing, and then we need to consider whether an absence of things is actually in itself a real thing, or just a concept, and if it is a concept it is obviously dependent on our own concepts basically. The other thing is if we can see it, then it must be part of dependent origination because otherwise we could not interact with it in any way.
So I question the notion of space actually
being a thing. It is for me rather an absence of things.
So if space is a concept, then concepts
arguably depend on other concepts. I guess not all philosophers will say that, there are also like self-existing concepts. But this we will have ample time to explore as we go. But yeah,
if we have a concept of something,
of red for example, then what is red? To sort of, to explain that, we have to talk about other things, no? If someone has not seen red and we want to explain what red is, then the only way that we can get at that is to do more than just say red, no? Red we will have to say, well you know, you have probably seen other colors like you saw yellow yesterday, remember? So red is also a color and so on and so forth. And that arguably is the way it is with concepts, no? That as soon as we are dealing with a concept, we are already in a web of concepts. But let's see whether that is so, no? That sounds already sort of like Buddhist philosophy. But yeah, there is something about concepts that certainly suggests dependence. And then there is, you also said if it is something that we see, so if it is something that we perceive, then perception too is something probably, you know, that takes place in a causal framework, no? It's when certain things is the case, we see certain things. And when those things are not the case, we won't see that particular thing. But again that is not necessarily the case either, no? We could have an idea of like a perception that just is what it is independently of anything else, like the perception of the truth, perhaps the ultimate truth, perhaps the perception of God. This is something that we can keep in mind. And then finally you mentioned absence, so what to do with absence? This is also something that we can really try to get a sense of what do we mean when we talk about absence, and the notion of perceiving absence or not perceiving absence, is absence perceptible or not? This is all something that we can spend time exploring. I think there were some other questions with, maybe you first, yeah?
So maybe you've been talking about something
like an independent origination, you know, if all is a sequence of cause and effects, you might think, you know, you go back to the beginning there was some first cause, like some type of unmoved mover maybe? So the unmoved mover would be something that is not causally dependent, yeah? There would certainly be, presumably that is a very wildly held position, no? Like if we believe in a... but not only if so, but if we believe in a permanent creator or in a, of all of this, someone who sets in motion all of these dependent events, then the idea with that immovable mover is precisely that, like the divine principle, or the creator, is not itself subject to causes and conditions. Because otherwise, certainly the notion of an omnipotent God cannot be maintained. No, if God, him/her/itself is dependent on causes and conditions apart from himself/herself/itself, then then it couldn't be an omnipotent God, right?
Okay, yeah, thank you.

Okay, do you think that Nāgārjuna gives a
hint to a possible answer of your question of what would not pratītyasamutpāda influenced by saying that it's the pacification of proliferation of constructs and that it's auspicious or peace, shivam? Because these two things would often be associated with an idea of, I don't know, like something like a Buddhajñāna, for instance, so that implicitly he answers this by just using these terms. Would you think that it's valid interpretation? I mean, you studied it much more. That's a brilliant question.
I think there are many ways that this can be interpreted, no?

I would say at this point,

at this point the most promising
is to... so what you were saying is that dependent origination, so you are somehow saying that the Buddhajñāna is--the Buddha's wisdom--would be an example of something that is not dependent origination, yeah? And that is this complete pacification, or the auspiciousness of the pacification of constructs, that this is something that is not dependent origination.
I think the..

like if we read the text here,
it says "that dependent, that which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go," and so forth. So in other words, dependent origination itself does not arise and does not cease, and that is the, therefore the perception of dependent origination is seeing the Dharma, and therefore seeing the Dharma is seeing the Buddha. So the question of whether the Buddha or the Buddha's wisdom is different from dependent origination sort of falls away, because it is the perception of dependent origination itself without ceasing and arising, that is the true Dharma. And the, the wisdom of that is the Buddha's wisdom. But this is something that we can go back to, there's obviously, there's an amazing rich and wonderful literature on this, yeah? This is one of the key points that have been discussed in volumes in the Tibetan literature over centuries, yeah? So that is one of the really amazing things about this text also, is that it brings you, it brings us into an environment which is so full of amazing voices and brilliantly sharp and wise minds. And it's not just that we can walk around there in awe and sort of marvelling at their... what all they can do, but we also ourselves have a real basis for appreciating what they are talking about. If we study the Mūlamādhyamakakārikā, then something of that kind, a topic of this kind that you just brought up, whether the Buddha's wisdom is dependent origination, is something that we will have... think about what could be, what from a Buddhist point of view at least, what could be more profound to think about? Like the nature of the Buddha's wisdom, what is it? And if we can say whether it's dependent origination or not, then we know a whole lot about the Buddha's wisdom. But who knows if the Buddha's wisdom is dependent origination or not? If we just, unless we have studied this already at length, then this will seem like a, yeah, wow, I guess Buddhist philosophers can say something about that, but what do I know? But believe it or not, when we just spend a little bit of time going through this, just you know, the first chapter already, our own opinion will be extremely informed. That's amazing, no? That doesn't mean that we can go, that now we are accomplished Buddhist philosophers, but it means that we know something which is really key and really central to the whole discussion. Like what could be more key and central than the very nature of causality in its relation to awakened wisdom? And this is something that we will definitely, through our own efforts of just working with the text and taking our own opinions, our own biases, our own inclinations, our own beliefs very seriously. And not by trying to follow some sort of program, philosophical program and adopt a certain set of views. It is all by focusing on what really do I mean? What do I really believe? What is my own perspective? Taking that very seriously and then allowing Nāgārjuna's critique to meet our own opinions and beliefs, in that way we will certainly arrive at a point where we can have a very meaningful dialogue with these amazing voices from the millennia, the centuries, and also very accomplished philosophers in the world today in this matter. So this is something that is very special about this text. Many other...
To learn Buddhist philosophy, as
we talked about yesterday, is something that requires a whole lot of time, a whole lot of energy, years of really focused study, learning, reflecting and trying to gain from one's knowledge in meditation.
But in this case it's possible to arrive in
the center of everything, so to speak, just by focusing on this text. That's why in many ways, or some say that the Mūlamādhyamakakārikā, although it's so profound, it is also like a perfect beginning for the whole journey of Buddhist philosophy.
So all of these things, let's note this down.
What seems to be the case in terms of dependent origination, in terms of the world as we know it, in terms of our own beliefs and perceptions? What seems to be the case about dependent origination? And also what are the candidates for not being dependent origination? Like we talked about, whether space might be so, absence,
the immovable mover,
the divine creator, whether that might be something that isn't dependent. And we talked about the Buddhist wisdom. So let's keep all of those examples in mind and any other that you can think of. So this is a good place to ponder already here. But the Buddha's teaching is certainly famed for being a teaching of dependent origination. The Buddha talks about the external world in terms of dependent origination, typically with the example, or very often, the use of an example of a seed, which when planted in the soil and the right conditions are there, will give rise to a sprout. And that sprout, again, when the assisting conditions are present, will grow to become a plant that has many leaves, can grow flowers and fruits perhaps. So this is dependent origination in the external world. But then we also know that the Buddha is not just concerned about what things happen in the external world, but primarily really concerned with how life unfolds in terms of the inner arising of dependent origination, where the first link of the 12 links of dependent origination is ignorance. And because consciousness is ignorant, then there's the karmic conditioning that plants seeds of karmic ripening in consciousness. And so, just as it is the case in the external world, consciousness will keep unfolding on that basis as seeds are planted in ignorant consciousness. They grow fruits of ignorance and defilement. And this process does not end until ignorance ends. That's why the 12 links of dependent origination are a circle. The last of the 12 links is old age and death. And old age and death is not the end of the story. Because the basic ignorance remains, there will be
a new round of birth
based on ignorance. So in the basic teachings of Buddhism this is of course a very central topic--dependent origination--coming to understand how consciousness evolves in this way, always conditioned, dependently originated, always conditioned by what took place before. And until the original misunderstanding has been set straight, then this kind of wheel is continuous, the wheel of samsara, the wheel of dissatisfying painful existence is going to continue in an unbroken fashion. So how to correct the error that maintains this? Like if the first link of dependent origination is ignorance, then there must be ignorance about something, right? If it is because of ignorance that painful existence continues life after life, death after death, then so what is this ignorance about? And in this regard the Buddha talks about our belief in self.
It is because basically I believe that I exist
as an individual separate from others, like you guys, and separate from things in the world, I am an individual who is here in the world. It is because I have this natural, if you want, perception of things that I will also, as soon as we have that kind of orientation, then with that comes a sense that I am fragile, because I am here in the world, I don't have control over the world obviously, so there are things that can threaten me. And I am also here right now in the world, but I am not all that I could be, I am not all that I would like to be, and so there are certain things in the world that I want. That comes with the very idea of self, that there is a sense of threat which is a form of fear that feeds aggression, right? Because if something then comes to hurt me, I am going to react. How could I do otherwise? If my very existence is threatened, I fight back of course. And even just to maintain my existence, it seems there are many things I need. I am not in control of my own existence and yet I exist here in the world as a distinct individual, but somehow at the mercy of other things, and there are things that I need, so craving becomes second nature too. So I am ready to become aggressive any moment, and I am also constantly in need of things. So whenever that is the case, then
it is very limited really what I can do.
What I will do is quite predictable. Indeed if someone comes to threaten, I am going to try to look as threatening as I can in return or react more strongly than that. Some way, try to find some way to overcome that threat that is present. And I will also spend a whole lot of time trying to get at the things that I feel can help me thrive in the world. So it becomes a very predictable existence, and it is also an existence that typically it is quite limited what can take place when that is the perspective. If I feel that I am someone who is basically under threat, and I need a whole lot of things, it is perhaps not the most
then that makes me feel that I have some urgent needs that
I need to take care of right now. Just if we think about what comes with the notion of self? What does it do to a mind to think in this way? I think it is a fact that when that is the case, then the scope of mind becomes very limited. It becomes very limited and what goes on in the mind will be very much determined by what is right in my face. Because those needs for survival and for thriving are the most fundamental that there is to me. So it becomes very limited and how good are we at then avoiding the threats, and how good are we at getting the things that we feel we need? Well, we can think about it, no? It seems unlikely that we will stumble upon some method that can take care of our enemies for good, it seems like. Who really believes that? That we can overcome our enemies permanently? And who really believes that it is possible to get what you need forever? So it is quite a miserable struggle that we have to face. And that is not something that Buddhist philosophy tries to... well maybe Buddhist philosophy does try to convince us about that, but it is something that we already know. And it is something that religions of the world know, it is something that philosophy has spoken about for millennia in all parts of the world too. This is, I suppose, what Rinpoche had in mind when he said these things, that impermanence and suffering are core elements of Buddhist teaching and yet they are not really uniquely Buddhist, in the sense that because this is common knowledge too,
that we are always under
threat, that there are always things that we need to get and that there is no real end in sight

So it could be of course that if we would just have this one miserable life and then or try to make the best of it, whatever we say, but a life of this kind, a life of trying to stay alive and trying to get certain things, because we can't get all that much in one life, trying to get as many nice things as we can in one life. If that type of existence would then be come to an end when we die, then that would be a sort of limited issue really, because it would be just a matter of a certain duration of experience and then naturally everything would come to an end. But the Buddha says that's not how it is though, because the very idea of self, that which creates the miserable life is actually not founded in anything factual. There is no self of the kind you think there is. In other words, there is no individual here who stands in opposition to the world, or who is a separate individual in a world outside it.
There's no enduring singular agent here.
So that is a mistake really the Buddha says. And if you see that mistake, then think about it. The reason that I thought I needed to protect myself was because I believed that I am such a thing, that I am someone who needs protection by all means. And the reason that I thought I had so many things to chase after was because I thought I am someone who can actually get things and miss things. And that's why I need to be on my toes to chase them. But what then if that's not the case? And I don't know... We can perhaps as a beginning for tomorrow we can think about the basic critique of, yeah let's do that.
The sort of general Buddhist critique of the
idea of a self, let's try to contemplate that for tomorrow, and then we meet and pick up there tomorrow. The reason that we would do that is because this opening verse is about dependent origination. And dependent origination is about causes and conditions, causes and conditions that we can notice at play in the external world, and causes and conditions that we can notice in our own experience. The Buddha is known as the teacher of dependent origination because he explains this way that we can witness dependent origination in the external world, but also see that our own experience of things, our own life, death and rebirth is conditioned. The twelve links of dependent origination is the key teaching of the Buddha. So that's what Nāgārjuna praises the Buddha for being able to do, but he also qualifies that notion of dependent origination in an extraordinary way. He says that whatever is like that, whatever is dependently arisen actually does not end, ever, and never arises. That seems to be like a cancellation of the very idea of dependent origination, no? Origination means that something comes into being, and if something comes into being, things need to go out of existence also. Otherwise what's the process of dependent origination? Coming and going...without movement, how can there be dependent origination? If everything is static then what dependent origination is there? Annihilated and permanent things, if there's nothing that is different from anything else and if we can't say that certain things are same as something else, then how to understand dependent origination? What kind of dependent origination is that, which is neither different things nor things that are of the same kind? So in other words Nāgārjuna praises the Buddha for being the teacher of dependent origination as we know he is, the wheel of dependent, the twelve links. But then he says all of that which is of this kind whether it's internally in the way of the twelve links or externally in the world, seed sprouts and so on, what have you, myriads of things, whatever is of that kind actually never arises in the first place, and never ceases. And that's why, because the Buddha shows this truth, this profound, auspicious, peaceful truth that is why he is the Teacher of teachers.
So in order to first get a little sense of
dependent origination in general in Buddhism this may be worthwhile that we think of the critique of the individual. So we're already one minute past but just very briefly the exercise that we can then do until tomorrow is to think of, "Okay do I have a notion of myself as being an individual?" And probably we will say yes. If not then that's fine also right. And please note it down and the point here again is not so much to try to get what I'm talking about, but more of course you need to somehow get a sense of what I'm trying to talk about but then on that basis it's much more important what you think. Not going along with what I say, but noting what you would say yourself in response to this. So do I have a notion of being an individual? Yes, I would say and do I have a notion of just being one individual? I would also say yes because if you call my name, I'm not going to sit and be confused for a moment thinking, "Who are you speaking to?" It's just me, that's just me, not many. Then of course if I think about it at length I can say I'm not the same person today as I was yesterday and so on, but the immediate response is sure I'm one individual.
And am I a permanent individual?
Yes, I sure am because although I say I'm not the same person today as I was yesterday it's still me. It's still me who was a different guy yesterday, but now has learned something or has, who knows what? Changed in some way so that I can now look back on myself yesterday and say, "Well it's a different person." The very fact that I can do that is evidence of my belief that I'm an enduring, and in that sense permanent individual. So at home please try to think do you agree that you are single, enduring individuals? One person? And do you agree that you stay the same in your experience? That your view of yourself is one of a lasting, enduring person? And if you say "No," then note down so that you can mention it why you don't think so. And if you think "Yes," then note down what the reasons are that you have this belief. If you say "I don't think so," then what are the reasons or the justification for having that belief? And if you say "Yes I am a single person who endures, is ongoing in time," then why do you have this belief and what is the justification of it? Yeah, thank you very much.
video
play-rounded-outline
17:25

Root of The Middle Way – Session 02

The Intricacies of Dependent Origination
Teacher: 
Location: 
  • Rangjung Yeshe Institute - Nepal
Description >>

Session 2 underscores the significance of Mabja Jangchub Tsondru’s “Ornament of Reason” as the main commentary on the MūlaMādhyamakakārikā. Central to Buddhist thought is the concept of dependent origination, which highlights the interconnectedness of all phenomena. Discussions delve into topics like the nature of space, perception, and the idea of the ‘unmoved mover’. The Buddha’s wisdom is seen as the embodiment of understanding this principle, revealing the essence of the true Dharma. Nāgārjuna further deepens this understanding by suggesting that anything arising dependently neither truly arises nor ceases.

Video
Audio
play-rounded-outline
 
So before we start, let's read the homage, which is an homage to the teacher, the Buddha, acknowledging the Buddha is the perfect teacher. And why? Because of the teaching of dependent origination. That's what Nāgārjuna says makes the Buddha the perfect teacher, his ability to convey the meaning of dependent origination free from conceptual constructs. So we talked about yesterday that, as the sūtra says, seeing dependent origination is seeing the Dharma,"The Rice Seedling Sūtra," which you can read in English translation at the 84,000 website.
It says, "Seeing dependent origination is seeing the Dharma,
and seeing the Dharma is seeing the Buddha." So in many ways this verse can be seen as a flawless way of going for refuge, and if we do that with a wish to learn deeply and genuinely in order to benefit an infinite amount of beings, then that's probably a flawless way of beginning this kind of session. So let's do that. And also of course when profound subject matter like this is being studied, then as you know there are traditionally a number of key points to keep in mind in terms of how one considers oneself. Like in the general context of the teachings one sees oneself as a sick person who has been afflicted by the disease of ignorance and negative emotions, and then looking for a cure one goes to the skilled doctor who is the Buddha and receives the remedy which is the teaching, and then one's application of that is taking the cure. So that's the kind of perspective that one is encouraged to assume from a general perspective. And in the context of the Mahāyāna everything that one does should be done in terms of the practice of the six pāramitās, and so also the teaching and study session, contemplation, should be within the framework of the six pāramitās. And so on, these three flaws of the vessel and so on that you all know very well, that one is supposed to stay clear of the ways of not apprehending the subject matter. So all of that stuff is good to always recollect and remind ourselves of to make sure that we can really benefit from the encounter and engagement with a profound teaching of this kind. So let's begin by reading the verses of homage. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go, is not annihilated and is not permanent, is not different and not the same, to the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha, I bow down." And then yesterday we spent some time talking about dependent origination in the general Buddhist context, where there's this distinction between outer dependent origination and inner dependent origination, outer dependent origination being the kind of causal dependencies that we see in the world around us, and the inner dependent origination being the way that life and death evolves and revolves based on dependencies, the twelve links of dependence arising. And we said that that dependent arising of the twelve links is based on consciousness being continuously the recipient of and the ripener of seeds of ignorance and negative emotions. And then if we talk about ignorance, some sort of mistake is implied, no? There's something that we're not aware of. Otherwise, why would we call it ignorance? And the specific type of ignorance that is pointed out in the very basic level of Buddhist philosophy is the ignorance of believing in a self that is singular and permanent and in control. So the belief that I am a single individual who remains and is in control of actions and so on. So then we said, "OK, do I feel like that? Do I believe like that or not?" We said we would sort of ponder that question and try to notice our experience, notice the way that we think and interact and so on and see whether there was a reason for saying that we have this kind of tendency
to think and believe in this way. So I would
love to hear what you think about that. Thank you. So, Mikki, I think. Thank you. All good. No problem. "OK. You really asked us to kind of honestly look at our beliefs rather than just accepting what is taught. And I just spent some time yesterday just realizing that I'm looking after this sense of self 24/7. You know, I'm always looking after number one, trying to push things away or wanting things. And then I was sort of thinking about, well, you know, this sense of permanence. Do I feel that I am the same person as I was before? I can see sort of intellectually that I'm not the same. But in terms of how I think about my memories, I do feel that there is some kind of thread that's passing through. So there is a kind of difference between something experiential and my intellectual understanding. And also, actually, I think that permanence for me, my grasping at permanence is more like how I see myself in the future. Like, for example, I'm kind of worried about my pension, for example, you know, that there's going to be a me who's going to need a pension. Or when am I going to have dinner tonight? So there's always that kind of anxiety and grasping and it's exhausting. And it's continuous and it never stops. And how lovely if I could somehow let it go." Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that's I think I know what you talk about. Yeah, it's...So, yes, certainly, then if if that is where we where we end up and thinking about this question, then it's extremely relevant. But then we might find out about this self, whatever it may be, any discovery that we may have about this self, which you said we are on 24/7. That will then be hugely relevant because it will be something that is applicable to--if that really is the case, that does that sort of orientation constantly, then it will have constant implications. whatever we find out. So that's a big part of the inquiry is trying to see how relevant is all of this stuff actually? And if it's something most things are relevant only sometimes and some things are not relevant at all in our whole life, we'll never have any real need for many things that we can nonetheless spend time on. Then there are other things that are relevant, very relevant in certain cases, like, yeah, if we know self-defense, if there's a kind of dangerous situation, then that would be hugely relevant at that particular time. But it may only be for a few minutes in our whole life and yet hugely beneficial. And then there are other things that are relevant on a daily basis, things that we need to remember and understand continuously to function. There are lots of those. But again, most of those are also things that are relevant in certain contexts and not in others, even if it's something that we need to be aware of on a daily basis. But if there's something that has implications for every moment of our existence, which is what you sort of indicated--if that is really the case, and whether that's the case is of course an open question. But we can certainly get that impression that this seems to be something that is there with me all the time. I just can't stop thinking in this way. That I'm someone who needs something, that I'm someone who needs to maintain myself one way or the other, and I'm here, the world is there. Once we begin to notice it, it's easy to get the sense that this is, yeah, it's all the time.
So, but what are other perceptions and understandings?


Okay, yeah. "So I find this idea of no-self experientially to feel true. Like if I meditate and I think about it, it seems these thoughts kind of arise without me having any agency in the matter. I meditate and this thought will pop in my head, like, "Oh, what am I going to do this weekend?" or "What will I have for dinner?" But it's not like I decided, I wanted to think that it kind of just happened. So it resonates with me that way. But then I find there's some intellectual hurdles I guess I have with the idea. I think if there's no me, then what is it that is being awakened and what is it that's understanding these truths? So I guess, you know, it's my experience with it." This sort of spontaneous, spontaneity of it, I think is very important to.. That is also why it seems so obvious that this is a truth, no? That there is an individual me, because it's not a conclusion we reach. It feels like we were born like that. But at this point we're not talking about whether that is true or not, but just whether there is such an individual once we investigate and examine, meditate and so on. We're just talking about whether we have the impression that there is such an individual. If we would say that I don't have that impression, then a lot of basic Buddhist philosophy we could say may be interesting, but it's not something that really addresses the way I experience the world. So, then how do we do with the online verses? Meanwhile, let's have another...
"So I was thinking about how right now I'm looking at you, but then I'm thinking about, oh, this seat
feels a little uncomfortable or like, you know, my mind is like going in all these different directions, which are a part of like dependent, the 12 links. And like, I see it, you know, and I realize how like my perception is also like so limited in terms of like what I see, because like we don't see the entire picture. And I was just wondering, like in terms of like our conscious self, like what I'm looking at right now, and then like the subconscious of what things that I don't see, it's made me realize that like, I don't know, like I don't really understand myself. Right. Yeah, that's a very good point. Yeah, I was really like thinking about it. Yeah. And then I was thinking like, over time, like we're constantly in these like phases of like craving, you know, and then we have a thought and then we go there. We're never like just actually focusing on ourselves. So in that way, I mean, I guess that's where like, maybe we need to go towards like understanding more of like who we are. Like we don't see the entire picture. So our perception is so limited. Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking about, like a sense of self. However, our sense of self is always changing, because like, I'm not the same. I kind of am the same person, like, in some way, like, you know, physically, but I'm also different because I think, you know, our thought process changes. I think there are always like slight changes in our, with what we absorb with our experiences because we are impermanent. And then all the contact we have with different people, I feel like it transforms us. So yeah, that's my thought." Thank you. So if I heard you correctly, then part of what you said is about this sort of struggle to say, so what really do I believe? What really do I feel? And because consciousness is complex and mysterious and the world is complex and mysterious and I'm part of it, and how can I really? Okay, so what really do I mean? How really does it feel? And so on. So that can be a very relevant reaction, no? But I think nonetheless, what we aim to do here is always to not give up, so to speak, not give up in the sense of never feeling that we are not qualified. And just about the first thing you said, with the subconscious and all of that, so how can I know the subconscious? By definition, I can't. So who knows how I feel? But there is
in this context, there are enormous implications if we say something like that.
What we will be getting into is a way of discussing and analyzing, enquiring, where every belief we have, every statement we make is to be taken extremely seriously. So that's something we're not used to, no? We're used to working things out, thankfully, we're used to not taking each other deadly seriously, because if we did that, we wouldn't get far. So we have to somehow figure out what each other mean as we go, and what we ourselves mean, we don't have time to really pause and ask myself, so what really do I mean now? Am I 100% sure that it's correct what I said? And so on. It doesn't happen really in our lives usually, no? But that's in itself quite interesting that it doesn't happen. But what we do now is pausing deliberately to ask exactly those types of questions. What did I just say? What did I just think? Is that a reasonable and accurate observation? Is it an accurate and a reasonable statement to make? And if we say, no it's not, then that has huge implications, then we have said something that just is not right. So that means, okay, it was mistaken, we can throw that away. What is then the right understanding? What is the right perception? And so on. So that is one of the things that is really important to keep in mind very acutely, that here we are not really discussing things, but the word analysis is also very good. Because we are really trying to figure out what we ourselves believe and what we ourselves are justified in believing. What we can believe, what we can say, all of that is really the target to figure out here. So it's a very unusual situation where the whole sort of... Even in philosophy it's hard to find that sort of rigor that this requires. Because if you have a philosophical system you have to work with it also, you have to develop it, you have to adjust it to other things. And so there's a natural sense of working together, dependent origination of philosophical systems. And you don't think the philosophical system, it may seem very rigorous, but in order to work with it we still have to sort of feel our way forward. Do you get what I'm trying to say? That it's very rare to find an occasion where you demand 100% rigor, so to speak. So that's actually what we are asking ourselves to be at this point. Not be rigorous in applying some sort of external belief system, but be 100% rigorous in examining our own beliefs, and our own perceptions, our own feelings, and so on, the whole package.
Okay, yeah. There are some responses online as well, yeah?
Quite lousy, can you speak? Sorry? Should I do something?
Is anyone online speaking?
"I was reflecting on, in terms of, I was trying to do a reflection yesterday, and I ended in a place of being somebody that stubbornly believes in causality and interrelation. So I just, because for me it wasn't even the question, I mean of course I feel myself as a solid entity, but it comes from this seeing everything in relation, to myself in relation, and everything out there in relation, so both the inner dependent origination and the outer, that there's kind of a stubborn view of not wanting to see things randomly appearing or spontaneously appearing, not in relation to each other. So it's like, yeah, a stubborn belief in causality, and me being the cause of things." And you being a true individual, meaning a single person? "It's funny because I use a lot of metaphors about myself, so sometimes I feel, I say this part of me or that part of me. So that's not a single person, that's a term kind of, it's a single person that has parts, right? Or having a feeling that I change, but yeah, no, there's a stubborn belief in an entity for sure of some sort. Whether it's a blob or it's made up of parts, so if any other metaphor might apply." Right. I think that's very interesting, that we can somehow, if you agree, I would say that we can somehow maintain the feeling of being one individual without thinking that it's any, yeah, it can be a blob, I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but sort of undefined something, me. And then it can also be something that we are comfortable with saying has different, one part of me says this and another part says that, so a sort of system of sorts. So that's probably how we typically think of ourselves, I am one person and I'm a sort of system of sorts too. But the main issue at this point is simply to notice whether we have that belief of being one and being someone who goes through time as the same individual. Maybe one more, let's see if there's the online thing. "Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes. There is a kind of barrier between myself and others in the sense that I cannot directly experience their thoughts. I depend on conclusions from observing the first phase, from analyzing the words, but sometimes it goes wrong, obviously. So even the assumption that there are others who experience thoughts from their side, it's just an assumption which is rigorously difficult to verify or to disprove. And so I feel there is some kind of limit or barrier which may lead to the kind of definition of self or the assumption of self." Okay, thank you. So that says something about our idea of self as being something that is very fundamental. That while we cannot know really whether there is a living being in front of us or not, we could say, you know, while we cannot verify whether there are other minds in the room or not in a sort of very definitive and certain fashion, then I am here. So there is something perhaps much more obvious about that belief than the belief that you are here. And there are certainly also deep thinkers who have gone that way, you know, like in the West with Descartes' meditations, that begin by saying that, or that built on the conclusion that 'I think, so I am.' So there is something here that is undeniable and that is me. And then there are many things out there, but what they are and so forth is more difficult to say. So there is something about the belief in me that is very, or something about being me that is so irrefutably real. So that is again, if we feel in that way, then that is again evidence of whatever we may come to understand about that being me and that me that we feel so strongly exists will have huge implications, because it is something that is really foundational for us. It is something that is so fundamental and obvious to us in a sense that it cannot be questioned in the way that basically everything else can. So at this point perhaps we can then, why is it that we have this belief? Maybe here one or two replies to that, like, okay, it feels so overwhelmingly real and it feels continuous that I continue to be around in this very undeniable fashion. So why do we have that feeling? Why do we have that belief? Maybe, yeah, okay, sure. Oh, yeah, okay. Beautiful. Yeah, thank you. "Actually, I am not sure if I have a direct reflection on that one, but I think along with what I reflected yesterday, maybe I can share a little bit. So my experience would be, I somehow can experience there is like changing moments and change, like, you know, this morning I do some yoga and practice and then I go to Upala, then like this activity, right, somebody is doing that activity, but that person who is doing that activity actually changes. It does change. I do have the feeling. You know, it's different from where in a coarse level the person is different, but even in a little bit more subtle level, like when the activity is being done from the previous moment to the next one, things change, right? The breath change, the thought change and the physical action change, but then to me it seems like it's a continuum of changing moments or changing activity. So that's fine, but I do feel there is somebody who is watching, like there is something that is aware of that continuum, and that thing needs to be there, like it needs to be permanent. So therefore you ask, why do I need that, somebody who is aware of that continuum? It's because I feel if I don't have that, then there is no more ground, like there is this something that is aware of that continuum gives me safety. Like I feel like I can put my feet on it, like somebody is aware of this continuum, even though things change constantly, but then there is this thing that is aware of that change. That gives a sense of safety, groundness. So I think that's why I need it."
Yes. So that thing though is supposed to be myself.
"I don't know what it is." So I guess the question is what is that thing that needs to be there? I mean we are talking about, so I guess the question for you to consider would be, is that thing yourself? "I feel that thing is something that is aware. It's not like a person, so to speak, I don't know if it's a consciousness, but it's something that is aware of all the changes that's going on, like something that watches the river flows." So that I think is very useful when there is a distinction between a person and something else, a watcher, consciousness, a process of consciousness and so on. That is very much I think what the basic Buddhist view, a distinction that the basic Buddhist philosophy wishes to make. That there is one kind of person..
that we can say certain things about, specifically that it doesn't exist,
but there are many other things that we certainly don't have to say that about and actually shouldn't say that about. So, thank you. So again the key issue that we have been thinking of is, do I feel that I am one individual, a single identity, person, and someone who remains like that from one situation to the next. And now we are also thinking, so if that is the case, it seems most people say that I do think along those lines. It's not the only thought I have about myself, but it captures something very important about my own understanding of myself. I am a person, one person, not many really. I can talk about this me and that me, but it's still the same me that I am ultimately concerned with. And just as I can talk about many kinds of me, I can speak about the me as I was ten years ago and imagine me in fifteen years and say I would be a different man, I would be a different woman, but it's me nonetheless. So it seems most have that sense that that's how I feel. One, the individuality and the permanence of that individuality is certainly something that is descriptive of my way of thinking and feeling, believing and so on. So then we ask the next question, which is why do I have that strong impression and that strong belief? Oh, sorry, you had something first, no? Why don't you say it first? "I was going to answer this question, at least the way that I thought of it. So the mental landscape of things is kind of one thing. I think we can sit with the thoughts that flow by and kind of zoom out in a way that's maybe disassociating from them as being attached to a definite sense of I. But that said, the second that the body gets hungry or the body has to go to the bathroom or something like that, it all of a sudden demands an assumption of individual experience. So to me the notion of being embodied, which feels like an undeniable fact to this experience currently, no matter whether it belongs to something or not, it's very closely linked with whatever my awareness is, whatever the experience that we're all having is. And so then when it has a particular demand that is then clearly separate from other people's, or seems to distinguish itself as being something more immediate, more pressing, and more true and real than someone else's experience, then to me there's a demand of separation. And so the embodied piece is what's hard for me. And then even notions of enlightenment being private. I've heard teachers say this, that enlightenment is private. And so even after the point of culmination there seems to be an individuation that's possible and present. Otherwise there would be no distinction between one Buddha and the next, right? Which maybe we can say isn't, but in terms of the embodied teachers we have access to, there are more than one and they seem different, even if we grant the notion that they could be potentially fully enlightened."
So those are all issues that we will be, or points
that we will be exploring in detail in the text, including also the teacher on the Tathagata, there's a whole chapter on that. Because that would be a classic argument to say that if you are Buddhist now, if you are a believing Buddhist, then okay, if certain great individuals can become Buddhas, then it's that individual who became a Buddha now, and that seems like solid evidence of some sort of identity, individuality. So about the body, that's also I think a very typical, we think of that as a very powerful reason for thinking of self. I think you pointed that out very well, that myself, it's very hard to have a meaningful sense of myself if disassociated with this body, or at least some form of embodied existence. Very difficult. What would that mean? To be an individual without anybody at all. So that seems to be something very strong and powerful and meaningful about the fact that there is a body, and my perception of being me is very determined by what goes on in this system. That's something I think we all must acknowledge, that there
is that, it's almost like the whole argument stops there.
Like okay, I can touch you, I'm here, and what more can you say? So that's something very even profound about that observation, about the embodied nature of being an individual, of having consciousness, etc. Again, now we're talking about the reasons for our belief that I exist, and we're talking about one particular version of believing I am, which has to do with thinking that I am, I am one person, and I'm continuous, I'm constant. It's me now, just as it was me yesterday. Otherwise I would have died. If it's not me who is here today, then who should it be? It doesn't hold in the court of law, I don't know, if I say oh no, it was a different person yesterday, of course it's me again today. So that type of individual, what relation does that type of individual have to the body? So if we look at what is the body, then we're looking for something which is one constant being. Wherever we look in the physical system of the body, we find many things, right? If my body, then we think one body, of course, but we know so well that my body is not just one thing, that it's many things, right? It's something we don't, it's obvious, right, that a body has, for example, two legs, two arms, a head, and so on. And those are all different things. And of course if I look at my arm, then the arm has upper arm, lower, hands, the hand has fingers, the fingers have joints, and so on. It doesn't stop seemingly anywhere. We can begin to, with the help of science, we can investigate closer and closer. And it's like these movies that are available also now of microscopic observations, it's like a universe that opens up, seemingly as endless as the universe around us. So if that is the case, then this very strong argument for saying "I am", namely the fact of the body, seems to be a fact of something radically different than one thing. It's not just, so that which we thought would be evidence of that, or that which we take as evidence of that, is actually counter evidence. We find the opposite of what we need to find in order to be justified in having the belief that "I am one individual". And the body also, and again we can benefit very much from scientific analysis, from medicine and biology and so on, physics, we can understand that this system and its substances are in continuous change. There's nothing there that stays the same, perhaps not even for a moment. Wherever we look we find processes, the body is a living system, right? Otherwise it's a decomposing body. There's nothing there that stays the same, not even from one moment to the next. So I believe I am one person and I believe I am constant as one person. And one of my core reasons for that is this experience of being embodied. And yet what I take to be a reason that justifies this conclusion. And like before we said, there's something so strong about pointing to the body that, like I was saying, you say "I am not here, there's no single me, there's no constant me". It's very natural to feel "But hey, I just hurt my finger". Or if you say like that "Let's see what happens if I throw a glass of water in your face" and stuff like that. There's something very strong and powerful about that argument. But what we are pointing to is not only something that doesn't support our conclusion, it's something that supports the opposite conclusion. That is very bizarre, no? We take it to be a clear and powerful argument to show that I am one being who is continuous in time, or who is constant in time, and yet when I look at the evidence that I present to myself or to others, then I find not only unsuccessful or flawed evidence, I find counter evidence. So my case is actually much worse off after that. So okay, then maybe the body is not the answer. Whatever myriads of interesting things there might be to say about the body, the body has nothing to do with my... It doesn't provide any reason for my belief that I am one constant individual. But what other evidence would there then be? Now at home, please examine whether this is so. Is the body argument now dismissed as an argument for saying I am one individual, a constant permanent individual? I am one me because if you call my name, I don't have to ask myself who should answer. I am the one who hears it, and if I want to answer, I will be the one who answers. I don't have to ask anyone. We don't have to have a discussion among ourselves.
So I am one me and in the same way I also feel very
naturally and we all agree and nobody will accept otherwise, even if we try to advance that position that I remain the same person from day to day, months to months. Throughout my life it is the same one me, it's my life, not many people's lives. So is it now the case that all of those beliefs have nothing to do with the body? That in the sense that we cannot find any justification for those beliefs by pointing to the body? That's what we have been concluding at this point. So please think of that carefully at home and whenever you have these sessions of inquiry. Are we really there already to be able to say that much? But if we are, then how about the other kinds of evidence that we have for having this belief in a singular and enduring person? What else is there? What would you say? Yes? "I was just thinking about this current, this teaching and learning situation and I feel that I am making an effort to pay attention. I also hope that I will learn something out of this, this in the future will be some acquired knowledge and I feel that I am in control as to how much I try to learn out of this situation." Yes, I am happy to know that. Now we are trying to see why do we have feelings and thoughts of this kind. In particular, the associated idea that you are one person who is doing this, who is studying this stuff and who has these expectations and hopes of being able to learn something. One person who will be able then to benefit in the future because you are also a constant permanent individual. That is what we are trying to look for reasons for. Why do we have beliefs of this kind? "It is a slightly different angle like this. It is not pointing to ontological evidence. It is more, I see that there is, excuse me, like, in so far as there is this belief in itself seems to just be the cause of all suffering in the world. It may also be the cause of all good in the sense that every one of us in this room only made it to this room because we believe incorrectly in a self. Take yourself for example. You have only gained all of this amazing knowledge about Nāgārjuna and Buddhist philosophy because you are operating under this misapprehension of a stable self that persists throughout time. This lady sitting right in front of me, sorry I don't know your name, but I think it is all for the best that you worry about your pension. You will indeed retire at some point and I hope that you are supported during that period. So I think there is a very profound pragmatic reason for this belief. I have never really thought of this question of why before. I have always been like, "Oh, it doesn't exist." Boom, done. I think the question is such a great question. I am so glad you asked it because I do feel like now thinking about this, "Okay, if I lost this, what else would I be giving up? Potentially everything I value." Yeah, it is a deep question and the consequences are quite daunting.
But again, this is super important to know and to acknowledge what you say.
It seems like even if we say that we are getting ahead of ourselves, saying that it is a mistake, because who says it is a mistake, but if it is a mistake, then it could be a necessary mistake. That is also something that is, I think, very commonly, it is a common view to have, in particular these days, a sort of scientific perspective on consciousness and the world and to say that, yeah, it may be a construct and in that sense the self is not something that we can actually find when looking for it, beyond just acknowledging our use of such concepts. But it is very necessary to go about things in this way by having and being skilled in using, in operating with that concept of self. And if we go wrong, it can be, yeah, having no pension is a small issue, no, compared to what really can, people lose their minds, no? That is not...
again, this goes to show that we are talking about something really fundamental
and it is something that whatever, again, we find out here will have pervasive implications for what there is, what we do, what we can be. But that much said, I think why it is also often, so this kind of insight can be overwhelming and the very topic can seem very intimidating, and yet we are talking only about "personal self", whether that exists or not. Quite soon we will begin to think about emptiness everywhere. So even this, the fundamental basic Buddhist philosophical point of view is very, seems to go to the bottom of so many things. However, in order to benefit from this kind of analysis, then we need to have a certain courage. So even if we don't have it, we just have to tell ourselves, okay, and I guess perhaps in that regard, maybe our experience from going to school and taking science classes, philosophy classes and so on can be helpful, because there we also know that things, we don't feel necessarily, what to say, at least I get the sense that many scientists who feel very comfortable with talking about self as being an error, don't feel that it's so intimidating. Or they feel that, okay, as you said, it's just an, did you say that you were used to thinking that it is an erroneous, so many people I think feel like that. So once we begin to feel that, oh hey man, what really is going to happen now, then we can zoom out a little bit. We can zoom out a little bit and say, okay, all I'm doing here is just looking at this idea of oneness and permanence, and I'm just trying to see is there any real justification for it? I just want to know that. And then do you see what I'm trying to say? That it's very important that we, on the one hand, we need to take in what we discover, but at this point we haven't, perhaps we haven't discovered all that much. We began to investigate the body to see if it's a good reason for, having the belief that I am one single individual. So we kind of, perhaps we are done with that investigation, we have found that it's not. Then that, if we have found that, then we just allow ourselves very gently and peacefully to acknowledge that, without any prejudice or expectation, just acknowledge what we found out. And then we can come, when that situation calls for it or invites us to continue, then we can go on to look at something else. And if we are still not there, then we keep working on our experience of the body, what a body is. Is it something that can really be seen as evidence of a single enduring thing or not? So in that case, as long as we do that, then
we have to have this kind of cool discernment.
We have to have that, that gives us the courage to take the inquiry further. If we come to a point at which we think, I'm in front of something here so deep and I don't know, I dare not proceed any further, then we don't. It's quite likely that we will come to that point. But when we do, then I think there are two ways that we can go about it. Sorry, the time is running out. There are two ways to go about it. One is a call for cool and calm, where we just tell ourselves to examine and analyse carefully and calmly with clear discernment in the way that we would usually do in school when trying to understand something very well. Another thing that we can rely on if we are Buddhists is to think that this kind of analysis is something that comes in a tradition where it is associated with immense benefit. So if we have the guts to stick it out and carry through with this, then the people who present this, they talk about it as if it's something that will make all the difference in the world. So that can also give us some strength. It's not a hope that I really hope that it will help me, but it's just a certain sort of confidence that, OK, well, let me see. It's different than if we just found a newspaper talking about this stuff, or picked up a book in the library, or came across something on the Internet that seemed very disturbing. Who knows where it came from and so on. If we are believers of some sort, then we can benefit from that as well. If we have some good experience with Buddhist tradition, if we have felt and experienced something that was really good, meaningful, beautiful and so on, then we know that it comes from that source, this stuff. So that can give us the calm and also some beauty that wouldn't necessarily be there with the calm perspective. But these two things that we have to rely on in order to get the courage, which is crucial. If we don't have the courage, this won't be worth our while. So let's continue thinking of the evidence for the belief in self until tomorrow, and also specifically we talked about the embodiment, something that seems to be a key reason for thinking "I am".
We said that that is not only useless evidence if it comes
to showing the existence of a single and enduring person, it's counter evidence. So everyone please at home ask yourself "Do I agree with this or not?" Perhaps I do not agree at all, then why not? Perhaps I agree 100% then why? And perhaps I agree somewhat, and that's very interesting. If you agree somewhat, then what? Don't just say "Yeah, that sounds pretty good", but think "Okay, so what sounds good about it? What sounds right? And what is it that if I'm reluctant to just say 'Yeah, perfect, I totally agree'. What is it that holds me back? What is it that I feel requires still some analysis?" So yeah, thank you for your patience and see you again. Thank you.
So before we start, let's read the homage, which is an homage to the teacher, the Buddha, acknowledging the Buddha is the perfect teacher. And why? Because of the teaching of dependent origination. That's what Nāgārjuna says makes the Buddha the perfect teacher, his ability to convey the meaning of dependent origination free from conceptual constructs. So we talked about yesterday that, as the sūtra says, seeing dependent origination is seeing the Dharma,"The Rice Seedling Sūtra," which you can read in English translation at the 84,000 website.
It says, "Seeing dependent origination is seeing the Dharma,
and seeing the Dharma is seeing the Buddha." So in many ways this verse can be seen as a flawless way of going for refuge, and if we do that with a wish to learn deeply and genuinely in order to benefit an infinite amount of beings, then that's probably a flawless way of beginning this kind of session. So let's do that. And also of course when profound subject matter like this is being studied, then as you know there are traditionally a number of key points to keep in mind in terms of how one considers oneself. Like in the general context of the teachings one sees oneself as a sick person who has been afflicted by the disease of ignorance and negative emotions, and then looking for a cure one goes to the skilled doctor who is the Buddha and receives the remedy which is the teaching, and then one's application of that is taking the cure. So that's the kind of perspective that one is encouraged to assume from a general perspective. And in the context of the Mahāyāna everything that one does should be done in terms of the practice of the six pāramitās, and so also the teaching and study session, contemplation, should be within the framework of the six pāramitās. And so on, these three flaws of the vessel and so on that you all know very well, that one is supposed to stay clear of the ways of not apprehending the subject matter. So all of that stuff is good to always recollect and remind ourselves of to make sure that we can really benefit from the encounter and engagement with a profound teaching of this kind. So let's begin by reading the verses of homage. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, does not come and does not go, is not annihilated and is not permanent, is not different and not the same, to the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha, I bow down." And then yesterday we spent some time talking about dependent origination in the general Buddhist context, where there's this distinction between outer dependent origination and inner dependent origination, outer dependent origination being the kind of causal dependencies that we see in the world around us, and the inner dependent origination being the way that life and death evolves and revolves based on dependencies, the twelve links of dependence arising. And we said that that dependent arising of the twelve links is based on consciousness being continuously the recipient of and the ripener of seeds of ignorance and negative emotions. And then if we talk about ignorance, some sort of mistake is implied, no? There's something that we're not aware of. Otherwise, why would we call it ignorance? And the specific type of ignorance that is pointed out in the very basic level of Buddhist philosophy is the ignorance of believing in a self that is singular and permanent and in control. So the belief that I am a single individual who remains and is in control of actions and so on. So then we said, "OK, do I feel like that? Do I believe like that or not?" We said we would sort of ponder that question and try to notice our experience, notice the way that we think and interact and so on and see whether there was a reason for saying that we have this kind of tendency
to think and believe in this way. So I would
love to hear what you think about that. Thank you. So, Mikki, I think. Thank you. All good. No problem. "OK. You really asked us to kind of honestly look at our beliefs rather than just accepting what is taught. And I just spent some time yesterday just realizing that I'm looking after this sense of self 24/7. You know, I'm always looking after number one, trying to push things away or wanting things. And then I was sort of thinking about, well, you know, this sense of permanence. Do I feel that I am the same person as I was before? I can see sort of intellectually that I'm not the same. But in terms of how I think about my memories, I do feel that there is some kind of thread that's passing through. So there is a kind of difference between something experiential and my intellectual understanding. And also, actually, I think that permanence for me, my grasping at permanence is more like how I see myself in the future. Like, for example, I'm kind of worried about my pension, for example, you know, that there's going to be a me who's going to need a pension. Or when am I going to have dinner tonight? So there's always that kind of anxiety and grasping and it's exhausting. And it's continuous and it never stops. And how lovely if I could somehow let it go." Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that's I think I know what you talk about. Yeah, it's...So, yes, certainly, then if if that is where we where we end up and thinking about this question, then it's extremely relevant. But then we might find out about this self, whatever it may be, any discovery that we may have about this self, which you said we are on 24/7. That will then be hugely relevant because it will be something that is applicable to--if that really is the case, that does that sort of orientation constantly, then it will have constant implications. whatever we find out. So that's a big part of the inquiry is trying to see how relevant is all of this stuff actually? And if it's something most things are relevant only sometimes and some things are not relevant at all in our whole life, we'll never have any real need for many things that we can nonetheless spend time on. Then there are other things that are relevant, very relevant in certain cases, like, yeah, if we know self-defense, if there's a kind of dangerous situation, then that would be hugely relevant at that particular time. But it may only be for a few minutes in our whole life and yet hugely beneficial. And then there are other things that are relevant on a daily basis, things that we need to remember and understand continuously to function. There are lots of those. But again, most of those are also things that are relevant in certain contexts and not in others, even if it's something that we need to be aware of on a daily basis. But if there's something that has implications for every moment of our existence, which is what you sort of indicated--if that is really the case, and whether that's the case is of course an open question. But we can certainly get that impression that this seems to be something that is there with me all the time. I just can't stop thinking in this way. That I'm someone who needs something, that I'm someone who needs to maintain myself one way or the other, and I'm here, the world is there. Once we begin to notice it, it's easy to get the sense that this is, yeah, it's all the time.
So, but what are other perceptions and understandings?


Okay, yeah. "So I find this idea of no-self experientially to feel true. Like if I meditate and I think about it, it seems these thoughts kind of arise without me having any agency in the matter. I meditate and this thought will pop in my head, like, "Oh, what am I going to do this weekend?" or "What will I have for dinner?" But it's not like I decided, I wanted to think that it kind of just happened. So it resonates with me that way. But then I find there's some intellectual hurdles I guess I have with the idea. I think if there's no me, then what is it that is being awakened and what is it that's understanding these truths? So I guess, you know, it's my experience with it." This sort of spontaneous, spontaneity of it, I think is very important to.. That is also why it seems so obvious that this is a truth, no? That there is an individual me, because it's not a conclusion we reach. It feels like we were born like that. But at this point we're not talking about whether that is true or not, but just whether there is such an individual once we investigate and examine, meditate and so on. We're just talking about whether we have the impression that there is such an individual. If we would say that I don't have that impression, then a lot of basic Buddhist philosophy we could say may be interesting, but it's not something that really addresses the way I experience the world. So, then how do we do with the online verses? Meanwhile, let's have another...
"So I was thinking about how right now I'm looking at you, but then I'm thinking about, oh, this seat
feels a little uncomfortable or like, you know, my mind is like going in all these different directions, which are a part of like dependent, the 12 links. And like, I see it, you know, and I realize how like my perception is also like so limited in terms of like what I see, because like we don't see the entire picture. And I was just wondering, like in terms of like our conscious self, like what I'm looking at right now, and then like the subconscious of what things that I don't see, it's made me realize that like, I don't know, like I don't really understand myself. Right. Yeah, that's a very good point. Yeah, I was really like thinking about it. Yeah. And then I was thinking like, over time, like we're constantly in these like phases of like craving, you know, and then we have a thought and then we go there. We're never like just actually focusing on ourselves. So in that way, I mean, I guess that's where like, maybe we need to go towards like understanding more of like who we are. Like we don't see the entire picture. So our perception is so limited. Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking about, like a sense of self. However, our sense of self is always changing, because like, I'm not the same. I kind of am the same person, like, in some way, like, you know, physically, but I'm also different because I think, you know, our thought process changes. I think there are always like slight changes in our, with what we absorb with our experiences because we are impermanent. And then all the contact we have with different people, I feel like it transforms us. So yeah, that's my thought." Thank you. So if I heard you correctly, then part of what you said is about this sort of struggle to say, so what really do I believe? What really do I feel? And because consciousness is complex and mysterious and the world is complex and mysterious and I'm part of it, and how can I really? Okay, so what really do I mean? How really does it feel? And so on. So that can be a very relevant reaction, no? But I think nonetheless, what we aim to do here is always to not give up, so to speak, not give up in the sense of never feeling that we are not qualified. And just about the first thing you said, with the subconscious and all of that, so how can I know the subconscious? By definition, I can't. So who knows how I feel? But there is
in this context, there are enormous implications if we say something like that.
What we will be getting into is a way of discussing and analyzing, enquiring, where every belief we have, every statement we make is to be taken extremely seriously. So that's something we're not used to, no? We're used to working things out, thankfully, we're used to not taking each other deadly seriously, because if we did that, we wouldn't get far. So we have to somehow figure out what each other mean as we go, and what we ourselves mean, we don't have time to really pause and ask myself, so what really do I mean now? Am I 100% sure that it's correct what I said? And so on. It doesn't happen really in our lives usually, no? But that's in itself quite interesting that it doesn't happen. But what we do now is pausing deliberately to ask exactly those types of questions. What did I just say? What did I just think? Is that a reasonable and accurate observation? Is it an accurate and a reasonable statement to make? And if we say, no it's not, then that has huge implications, then we have said something that just is not right. So that means, okay, it was mistaken, we can throw that away. What is then the right understanding? What is the right perception? And so on. So that is one of the things that is really important to keep in mind very acutely, that here we are not really discussing things, but the word analysis is also very good. Because we are really trying to figure out what we ourselves believe and what we ourselves are justified in believing. What we can believe, what we can say, all of that is really the target to figure out here. So it's a very unusual situation where the whole sort of... Even in philosophy it's hard to find that sort of rigor that this requires. Because if you have a philosophical system you have to work with it also, you have to develop it, you have to adjust it to other things. And so there's a natural sense of working together, dependent origination of philosophical systems. And you don't think the philosophical system, it may seem very rigorous, but in order to work with it we still have to sort of feel our way forward. Do you get what I'm trying to say? That it's very rare to find an occasion where you demand 100% rigor, so to speak. So that's actually what we are asking ourselves to be at this point. Not be rigorous in applying some sort of external belief system, but be 100% rigorous in examining our own beliefs, and our own perceptions, our own feelings, and so on, the whole package.
Okay, yeah. There are some responses online as well, yeah?
Quite lousy, can you speak? Sorry? Should I do something?
Is anyone online speaking?
"I was reflecting on, in terms of, I was trying to do a reflection yesterday, and I ended in a place of being somebody that stubbornly believes in causality and interrelation. So I just, because for me it wasn't even the question, I mean of course I feel myself as a solid entity, but it comes from this seeing everything in relation, to myself in relation, and everything out there in relation, so both the inner dependent origination and the outer, that there's kind of a stubborn view of not wanting to see things randomly appearing or spontaneously appearing, not in relation to each other. So it's like, yeah, a stubborn belief in causality, and me being the cause of things." And you being a true individual, meaning a single person? "It's funny because I use a lot of metaphors about myself, so sometimes I feel, I say this part of me or that part of me. So that's not a single person, that's a term kind of, it's a single person that has parts, right? Or having a feeling that I change, but yeah, no, there's a stubborn belief in an entity for sure of some sort. Whether it's a blob or it's made up of parts, so if any other metaphor might apply." Right. I think that's very interesting, that we can somehow, if you agree, I would say that we can somehow maintain the feeling of being one individual without thinking that it's any, yeah, it can be a blob, I don't know exactly what you mean by that, but sort of undefined something, me. And then it can also be something that we are comfortable with saying has different, one part of me says this and another part says that, so a sort of system of sorts. So that's probably how we typically think of ourselves, I am one person and I'm a sort of system of sorts too. But the main issue at this point is simply to notice whether we have that belief of being one and being someone who goes through time as the same individual. Maybe one more, let's see if there's the online thing. "Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Yes. There is a kind of barrier between myself and others in the sense that I cannot directly experience their thoughts. I depend on conclusions from observing the first phase, from analyzing the words, but sometimes it goes wrong, obviously. So even the assumption that there are others who experience thoughts from their side, it's just an assumption which is rigorously difficult to verify or to disprove. And so I feel there is some kind of limit or barrier which may lead to the kind of definition of self or the assumption of self." Okay, thank you. So that says something about our idea of self as being something that is very fundamental. That while we cannot know really whether there is a living being in front of us or not, we could say, you know, while we cannot verify whether there are other minds in the room or not in a sort of very definitive and certain fashion, then I am here. So there is something perhaps much more obvious about that belief than the belief that you are here. And there are certainly also deep thinkers who have gone that way, you know, like in the West with Descartes' meditations, that begin by saying that, or that built on the conclusion that 'I think, so I am.' So there is something here that is undeniable and that is me. And then there are many things out there, but what they are and so forth is more difficult to say. So there is something about the belief in me that is very, or something about being me that is so irrefutably real. So that is again, if we feel in that way, then that is again evidence of whatever we may come to understand about that being me and that me that we feel so strongly exists will have huge implications, because it is something that is really foundational for us. It is something that is so fundamental and obvious to us in a sense that it cannot be questioned in the way that basically everything else can. So at this point perhaps we can then, why is it that we have this belief? Maybe here one or two replies to that, like, okay, it feels so overwhelmingly real and it feels continuous that I continue to be around in this very undeniable fashion. So why do we have that feeling? Why do we have that belief? Maybe, yeah, okay, sure. Oh, yeah, okay. Beautiful. Yeah, thank you. "Actually, I am not sure if I have a direct reflection on that one, but I think along with what I reflected yesterday, maybe I can share a little bit. So my experience would be, I somehow can experience there is like changing moments and change, like, you know, this morning I do some yoga and practice and then I go to Upala, then like this activity, right, somebody is doing that activity, but that person who is doing that activity actually changes. It does change. I do have the feeling. You know, it's different from where in a coarse level the person is different, but even in a little bit more subtle level, like when the activity is being done from the previous moment to the next one, things change, right? The breath change, the thought change and the physical action change, but then to me it seems like it's a continuum of changing moments or changing activity. So that's fine, but I do feel there is somebody who is watching, like there is something that is aware of that continuum, and that thing needs to be there, like it needs to be permanent. So therefore you ask, why do I need that, somebody who is aware of that continuum? It's because I feel if I don't have that, then there is no more ground, like there is this something that is aware of that continuum gives me safety. Like I feel like I can put my feet on it, like somebody is aware of this continuum, even though things change constantly, but then there is this thing that is aware of that change. That gives a sense of safety, groundness. So I think that's why I need it."
Yes. So that thing though is supposed to be myself.
"I don't know what it is." So I guess the question is what is that thing that needs to be there? I mean we are talking about, so I guess the question for you to consider would be, is that thing yourself? "I feel that thing is something that is aware. It's not like a person, so to speak, I don't know if it's a consciousness, but it's something that is aware of all the changes that's going on, like something that watches the river flows." So that I think is very useful when there is a distinction between a person and something else, a watcher, consciousness, a process of consciousness and so on. That is very much I think what the basic Buddhist view, a distinction that the basic Buddhist philosophy wishes to make. That there is one kind of person..
that we can say certain things about, specifically that it doesn't exist,
but there are many other things that we certainly don't have to say that about and actually shouldn't say that about. So, thank you. So again the key issue that we have been thinking of is, do I feel that I am one individual, a single identity, person, and someone who remains like that from one situation to the next. And now we are also thinking, so if that is the case, it seems most people say that I do think along those lines. It's not the only thought I have about myself, but it captures something very important about my own understanding of myself. I am a person, one person, not many really. I can talk about this me and that me, but it's still the same me that I am ultimately concerned with. And just as I can talk about many kinds of me, I can speak about the me as I was ten years ago and imagine me in fifteen years and say I would be a different man, I would be a different woman, but it's me nonetheless. So it seems most have that sense that that's how I feel. One, the individuality and the permanence of that individuality is certainly something that is descriptive of my way of thinking and feeling, believing and so on. So then we ask the next question, which is why do I have that strong impression and that strong belief? Oh, sorry, you had something first, no? Why don't you say it first? "I was going to answer this question, at least the way that I thought of it. So the mental landscape of things is kind of one thing. I think we can sit with the thoughts that flow by and kind of zoom out in a way that's maybe disassociating from them as being attached to a definite sense of I. But that said, the second that the body gets hungry or the body has to go to the bathroom or something like that, it all of a sudden demands an assumption of individual experience. So to me the notion of being embodied, which feels like an undeniable fact to this experience currently, no matter whether it belongs to something or not, it's very closely linked with whatever my awareness is, whatever the experience that we're all having is. And so then when it has a particular demand that is then clearly separate from other people's, or seems to distinguish itself as being something more immediate, more pressing, and more true and real than someone else's experience, then to me there's a demand of separation. And so the embodied piece is what's hard for me. And then even notions of enlightenment being private. I've heard teachers say this, that enlightenment is private. And so even after the point of culmination there seems to be an individuation that's possible and present. Otherwise there would be no distinction between one Buddha and the next, right? Which maybe we can say isn't, but in terms of the embodied teachers we have access to, there are more than one and they seem different, even if we grant the notion that they could be potentially fully enlightened."
So those are all issues that we will be, or points
that we will be exploring in detail in the text, including also the teacher on the Tathagata, there's a whole chapter on that. Because that would be a classic argument to say that if you are Buddhist now, if you are a believing Buddhist, then okay, if certain great individuals can become Buddhas, then it's that individual who became a Buddha now, and that seems like solid evidence of some sort of identity, individuality. So about the body, that's also I think a very typical, we think of that as a very powerful reason for thinking of self. I think you pointed that out very well, that myself, it's very hard to have a meaningful sense of myself if disassociated with this body, or at least some form of embodied existence. Very difficult. What would that mean? To be an individual without anybody at all. So that seems to be something very strong and powerful and meaningful about the fact that there is a body, and my perception of being me is very determined by what goes on in this system. That's something I think we all must acknowledge, that there
is that, it's almost like the whole argument stops there.
Like okay, I can touch you, I'm here, and what more can you say? So that's something very even profound about that observation, about the embodied nature of being an individual, of having consciousness, etc. Again, now we're talking about the reasons for our belief that I exist, and we're talking about one particular version of believing I am, which has to do with thinking that I am, I am one person, and I'm continuous, I'm constant. It's me now, just as it was me yesterday. Otherwise I would have died. If it's not me who is here today, then who should it be? It doesn't hold in the court of law, I don't know, if I say oh no, it was a different person yesterday, of course it's me again today. So that type of individual, what relation does that type of individual have to the body? So if we look at what is the body, then we're looking for something which is one constant being. Wherever we look in the physical system of the body, we find many things, right? If my body, then we think one body, of course, but we know so well that my body is not just one thing, that it's many things, right? It's something we don't, it's obvious, right, that a body has, for example, two legs, two arms, a head, and so on. And those are all different things. And of course if I look at my arm, then the arm has upper arm, lower, hands, the hand has fingers, the fingers have joints, and so on. It doesn't stop seemingly anywhere. We can begin to, with the help of science, we can investigate closer and closer. And it's like these movies that are available also now of microscopic observations, it's like a universe that opens up, seemingly as endless as the universe around us. So if that is the case, then this very strong argument for saying "I am", namely the fact of the body, seems to be a fact of something radically different than one thing. It's not just, so that which we thought would be evidence of that, or that which we take as evidence of that, is actually counter evidence. We find the opposite of what we need to find in order to be justified in having the belief that "I am one individual". And the body also, and again we can benefit very much from scientific analysis, from medicine and biology and so on, physics, we can understand that this system and its substances are in continuous change. There's nothing there that stays the same, perhaps not even for a moment. Wherever we look we find processes, the body is a living system, right? Otherwise it's a decomposing body. There's nothing there that stays the same, not even from one moment to the next. So I believe I am one person and I believe I am constant as one person. And one of my core reasons for that is this experience of being embodied. And yet what I take to be a reason that justifies this conclusion. And like before we said, there's something so strong about pointing to the body that, like I was saying, you say "I am not here, there's no single me, there's no constant me". It's very natural to feel "But hey, I just hurt my finger". Or if you say like that "Let's see what happens if I throw a glass of water in your face" and stuff like that. There's something very strong and powerful about that argument. But what we are pointing to is not only something that doesn't support our conclusion, it's something that supports the opposite conclusion. That is very bizarre, no? We take it to be a clear and powerful argument to show that I am one being who is continuous in time, or who is constant in time, and yet when I look at the evidence that I present to myself or to others, then I find not only unsuccessful or flawed evidence, I find counter evidence. So my case is actually much worse off after that. So okay, then maybe the body is not the answer. Whatever myriads of interesting things there might be to say about the body, the body has nothing to do with my... It doesn't provide any reason for my belief that I am one constant individual. But what other evidence would there then be? Now at home, please examine whether this is so. Is the body argument now dismissed as an argument for saying I am one individual, a constant permanent individual? I am one me because if you call my name, I don't have to ask myself who should answer. I am the one who hears it, and if I want to answer, I will be the one who answers. I don't have to ask anyone. We don't have to have a discussion among ourselves.
So I am one me and in the same way I also feel very
naturally and we all agree and nobody will accept otherwise, even if we try to advance that position that I remain the same person from day to day, months to months. Throughout my life it is the same one me, it's my life, not many people's lives. So is it now the case that all of those beliefs have nothing to do with the body? That in the sense that we cannot find any justification for those beliefs by pointing to the body? That's what we have been concluding at this point. So please think of that carefully at home and whenever you have these sessions of inquiry. Are we really there already to be able to say that much? But if we are, then how about the other kinds of evidence that we have for having this belief in a singular and enduring person? What else is there? What would you say? Yes? "I was just thinking about this current, this teaching and learning situation and I feel that I am making an effort to pay attention. I also hope that I will learn something out of this, this in the future will be some acquired knowledge and I feel that I am in control as to how much I try to learn out of this situation." Yes, I am happy to know that. Now we are trying to see why do we have feelings and thoughts of this kind. In particular, the associated idea that you are one person who is doing this, who is studying this stuff and who has these expectations and hopes of being able to learn something. One person who will be able then to benefit in the future because you are also a constant permanent individual. That is what we are trying to look for reasons for. Why do we have beliefs of this kind? "It is a slightly different angle like this. It is not pointing to ontological evidence. It is more, I see that there is, excuse me, like, in so far as there is this belief in itself seems to just be the cause of all suffering in the world. It may also be the cause of all good in the sense that every one of us in this room only made it to this room because we believe incorrectly in a self. Take yourself for example. You have only gained all of this amazing knowledge about Nāgārjuna and Buddhist philosophy because you are operating under this misapprehension of a stable self that persists throughout time. This lady sitting right in front of me, sorry I don't know your name, but I think it is all for the best that you worry about your pension. You will indeed retire at some point and I hope that you are supported during that period. So I think there is a very profound pragmatic reason for this belief. I have never really thought of this question of why before. I have always been like, "Oh, it doesn't exist." Boom, done. I think the question is such a great question. I am so glad you asked it because I do feel like now thinking about this, "Okay, if I lost this, what else would I be giving up? Potentially everything I value." Yeah, it is a deep question and the consequences are quite daunting.
But again, this is super important to know and to acknowledge what you say.
It seems like even if we say that we are getting ahead of ourselves, saying that it is a mistake, because who says it is a mistake, but if it is a mistake, then it could be a necessary mistake. That is also something that is, I think, very commonly, it is a common view to have, in particular these days, a sort of scientific perspective on consciousness and the world and to say that, yeah, it may be a construct and in that sense the self is not something that we can actually find when looking for it, beyond just acknowledging our use of such concepts. But it is very necessary to go about things in this way by having and being skilled in using, in operating with that concept of self. And if we go wrong, it can be, yeah, having no pension is a small issue, no, compared to what really can, people lose their minds, no? That is not...
again, this goes to show that we are talking about something really fundamental
and it is something that whatever, again, we find out here will have pervasive implications for what there is, what we do, what we can be. But that much said, I think why it is also often, so this kind of insight can be overwhelming and the very topic can seem very intimidating, and yet we are talking only about "personal self", whether that exists or not. Quite soon we will begin to think about emptiness everywhere. So even this, the fundamental basic Buddhist philosophical point of view is very, seems to go to the bottom of so many things. However, in order to benefit from this kind of analysis, then we need to have a certain courage. So even if we don't have it, we just have to tell ourselves, okay, and I guess perhaps in that regard, maybe our experience from going to school and taking science classes, philosophy classes and so on can be helpful, because there we also know that things, we don't feel necessarily, what to say, at least I get the sense that many scientists who feel very comfortable with talking about self as being an error, don't feel that it's so intimidating. Or they feel that, okay, as you said, it's just an, did you say that you were used to thinking that it is an erroneous, so many people I think feel like that. So once we begin to feel that, oh hey man, what really is going to happen now, then we can zoom out a little bit. We can zoom out a little bit and say, okay, all I'm doing here is just looking at this idea of oneness and permanence, and I'm just trying to see is there any real justification for it? I just want to know that. And then do you see what I'm trying to say? That it's very important that we, on the one hand, we need to take in what we discover, but at this point we haven't, perhaps we haven't discovered all that much. We began to investigate the body to see if it's a good reason for, having the belief that I am one single individual. So we kind of, perhaps we are done with that investigation, we have found that it's not. Then that, if we have found that, then we just allow ourselves very gently and peacefully to acknowledge that, without any prejudice or expectation, just acknowledge what we found out. And then we can come, when that situation calls for it or invites us to continue, then we can go on to look at something else. And if we are still not there, then we keep working on our experience of the body, what a body is. Is it something that can really be seen as evidence of a single enduring thing or not? So in that case, as long as we do that, then
we have to have this kind of cool discernment.
We have to have that, that gives us the courage to take the inquiry further. If we come to a point at which we think, I'm in front of something here so deep and I don't know, I dare not proceed any further, then we don't. It's quite likely that we will come to that point. But when we do, then I think there are two ways that we can go about it. Sorry, the time is running out. There are two ways to go about it. One is a call for cool and calm, where we just tell ourselves to examine and analyse carefully and calmly with clear discernment in the way that we would usually do in school when trying to understand something very well. Another thing that we can rely on if we are Buddhists is to think that this kind of analysis is something that comes in a tradition where it is associated with immense benefit. So if we have the guts to stick it out and carry through with this, then the people who present this, they talk about it as if it's something that will make all the difference in the world. So that can also give us some strength. It's not a hope that I really hope that it will help me, but it's just a certain sort of confidence that, OK, well, let me see. It's different than if we just found a newspaper talking about this stuff, or picked up a book in the library, or came across something on the Internet that seemed very disturbing. Who knows where it came from and so on. If we are believers of some sort, then we can benefit from that as well. If we have some good experience with Buddhist tradition, if we have felt and experienced something that was really good, meaningful, beautiful and so on, then we know that it comes from that source, this stuff. So that can give us the calm and also some beauty that wouldn't necessarily be there with the calm perspective. But these two things that we have to rely on in order to get the courage, which is crucial. If we don't have the courage, this won't be worth our while. So let's continue thinking of the evidence for the belief in self until tomorrow, and also specifically we talked about the embodiment, something that seems to be a key reason for thinking "I am".
We said that that is not only useless evidence if it comes
to showing the existence of a single and enduring person, it's counter evidence. So everyone please at home ask yourself "Do I agree with this or not?" Perhaps I do not agree at all, then why not? Perhaps I agree 100% then why? And perhaps I agree somewhat, and that's very interesting. If you agree somewhat, then what? Don't just say "Yeah, that sounds pretty good", but think "Okay, so what sounds good about it? What sounds right? And what is it that if I'm reluctant to just say 'Yeah, perfect, I totally agree'. What is it that holds me back? What is it that I feel requires still some analysis?" So yeah, thank you for your patience and see you again. Thank you.
video
play-rounded-outline
17:25

Root of The Middle Way – Session 03

Exploring the Illusion of Self
Teacher: 
Location: 
  • Rangjung Yeshe Institute - Nepal
Description >>

Session 3 delves into the concept of self and the Buddha’s teachings on dependent origination. Opening with respect to the Buddha, it emphasizes that understanding dependent origination equates to understanding the Dharma. The discourse then highlights the human flaw of perceiving a permanent, controlling self, and attendees are urged to introspect deeply on this belief. This introspection leads to discussions about the continuous nature of self and the “observing self.” The role of the physical body, with its ever-changing nature, is explored, contrasting it with traditional beliefs of a static identity. As these revelations unfold, the implications for our motivations and understanding of the self are considered. The lecture underscores the need for courage in confronting these philosophical challenges, with the Buddhist teachings providing both guidance and solace.

Video
Audio
video
play-rounded-outline
 
So, let's begin again our session and we begin by reading aloud the homage. And you may notice that lines C and D of the first slogan have been turned around. A kind person made me aware that the sequence was off, so now I should be right. So let's begin by reading aloud those verses. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, is not annihilated and is not permanent, does not come and does not go, Is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, The complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha I bow down."
And then of course if on top of refuge we can
sort of bring to mind that this is something that can be an opportunity to ultimately benefit all beings, then that is a very nice way to begin I think.
So yesterday we were still trying to get a
sense of what dependent origination is, from a so-called general Buddhist perspective, when we talk about the 12 links of dependent origination Out of interdependent origination, and then the interdependent origination being about how life and death and rebirth occurs by means of, in terms of those 12 links. And we are saying that the Buddha teaches these links in order to point out an unbroken circle, a revolving circle, which is based on ignorance, which is maintained by a certain kind of ignorance. And then we were trying to get a sense of what this ignorance is about. And in the general context of the teachings, ignorance has very much to do with the notion of belief in a person, the existence of a person. What sort of person? A person who is a singular individual and who is permanent in the sense of being the same from one situation to the next, and who is also the agent of actions. It's that person who does things. So I am one person, just me here, and I am in the world, of course, sharing it with other people, but here I am as one person. And I remain me as I go about doing things in the world, and indeed it is me who does these things. So those three notions of singularity, of permanence and of agency being in control of actions, that's what the Buddha says is actually, those are actually all mistaken notions, mistaken ideas.
And then we were saying yesterday,
"Okay, fine, but do we at all believe in this way? Do we at all think of ourselves as singular, permanent agents?"
And that's what we tried to spend a good deal
of time on, trying to notice in our own minds, looking at our own beliefs, ideas, perceptions, what seems to be the case. Do I have the sense of being one person? Do I have the sense of being an ongoing, constant in the world who performs actions? Because if not, then what the Buddha talks about may be interesting for some, but it's not directly relevant to me, because I actually don't think in this way. I don't have this perception of being an individual of this kind. And I think there was agreement. There was nobody who said, "That's not the case. That's not how I think about myself." There were many who said, "This is not the whole story." And that's precisely, you could say perhaps, the Buddha's point in the general context of the teachings. It's far from the whole story, but it's a mistake and those beliefs are mistaken. The nice thing about those beliefs is that we can show very clearly in a clean, thorough fashion, that they are just misconceptions that have no bearing on reality. And then let's see afterwards what we may have to say on the basis of that understanding. But before we get there, of course, we have to see what the Buddha's reason may be for saying that this is a misunderstanding,
a wrong belief to think of oneself as such an individual
And that's why we began to ask ourselves, "So why do I think this way? What's the reason that I have the idea?" Once we have said, "Okay, this is all quite descriptive of my experience and of my beliefs, that I think I'm an individual of this kind," then we said, "But why?" I feel that we also spent a fair amount of time noticing how unquestionable the sense of being here as a person, as an individual, seems to be. How fundamental as a sort of linchpin for so much that it's hard to perhaps imagine what it would be like if there weren't such an individual.
So that may be our intuition and where we immediately think we are at.
But then we also began to think yesterday, "So why do we have this very strong idea, very strong sense that certainly I'm here as a person? It's just me, singularity in that sort of simple, commonsensical fashion.
And it's just me now, just as it was just me
sitting on this chair yesterday, permanence in that simple and commonsensical fashion. So why do I believe like that? What are my reasons for having this spontaneous confidence in being a person of this kind?" And then someone said, "Well, embodiment is really important. It's because there's this body, physical system, whatever we want to call it, living organism, whatever we might want to say about the body, because with that comes very naturally a notion of being an individual of this kind."
But what did we do then?
We said, "Okay, let's then look at this presence of the body, and take a better look at what is it that we have there."
And when we look at the body, we notice that it is so many things.
Although we can speak about the body and some sense of singularity is apparent in our minds, when we say that, to the extent that we can talk about it with each other, "My body," you're not going to insist that, but actually it's many things. It works very well to say, "My body, your body," and so on. We can do a whole lot of things on that basis. But now we are looking more closely at what is that body that we talk about when we refer in this way. And then we notice that, of course, and we know this already, the body is not just one thing. Obviously it has many limbs and body parts. And those body parts are also made of other body parts. And at a certain point it becomes sort of exotic when we get beyond what can can be immediately seen. Then with the help of science, we can nonetheless explore dimensions of the body, which seem to be there just as much as what is visually perceptible with the naked eye. If we use strong microscopes and whatever else there is of implements, then we can get a sense of very subtle things, and those subtle things, whether those are themselves beings of their own or whether they are part of just my body. Often times that's an open question in biology, what belongs to my body? what belongs to the environment? and so on... A whole lot of questions that open up. In other words, we certainly don't find simplicity looking at the body. And simplicity comes with this notion of "I am here." It couldn't get more simple. So we thought that simplicity is derived from our physical presence. But that's an absurd idea, because not only does the body not support that sort of simple individual, it's clearly the opposite. So how on earth could we think that something that is the exact opposite of what we're trying to get at is evidence of this individual? It would be like, I'm always so bad with examples now, but let's try to see if we can find a good one
We say there is water
in the cup because there's fire. That sounds insane. And if we insist on that, then we are absurd.
So actually, otherwise we share the sense
probably that the body, my sense of being here as an embodied being is very powerful evidence of me being a real person. We share that. And now, in just a few moments of thinking, inquiring a little further, what seemed like such a natural recognition is absurd.
So think about that.
Is it absurd? It's hard to see if taking perfect counter-evidence as evidence and insisting nonetheless that it is evidence of a certain something is not absurd, then what is? So that's where we ended, I think, with the body. But of course, okay, we might say, "I am a mental being" perhaps, or "the real me, the real reason that I have this idea of being a singular individual is because I have a soul. That's what gives me this individuality."
Sorry.

So, how about, yeah, what else evidence would that be for...
Like personally, what do we think if we just try again to notice exactly my sense of being one individual, not what individuality is or something like that, no? But when we think of ourselves, try to sort of observe ourselves, then exactly the kind of sense of individuality and permanence of individuality that I feel, that I notice, that I think is relevant for me, where does that come from? What's it founded on, if not the body? And what would we then say? What would be our response?
Yes, it was, Thank you.
"I would think if it's not the body, I would think that "I think." So like Descartes, like you said yesterday, "I think, ergo I am." So it's my thoughts and I have some sense of power over them. I mean, I can direct them. I mean, I don't really believe that, but I have a sense of that, I think. But now it's also absurd. It's difficult to say, but I would say thoughts." Yeah. "Probably." Right. "And feelings, which is also embodied in a way. But it's the label, right? It's like tightness in the chest. It could be anxiety. Could also be excitement. It's the same experience, but related to my thoughts and feelings, I think." That also gives us a sense of being an individual. Yeah. "So my feelings, my thoughts."
So, one-- "Hey, hey.
Yeah, OK. Yeah. Student: "Thomas, this is Reagan. The first time we connected was about 10 years ago in Shantideva's Chapter 9 Wisdom context. And your insights and help was so profound, and I'm so happy to be here. I just want to say on this subject that for me personally, I feel like, man, I mean, when it comes to this subject matter, it's so open air, it's so abstract and weird. Like I'll find myself, you know, I mean, like even on a normal basis, I think most people can say that they feel down today or they feel good today. And that energy is there. But I just feel like mentally speaking, like, I mean, like, you know, we're all a little bit freaked out about our experience, man. And we're all here like contemplating death and impermanence and our precious human life. And in this context, like what you're talking about there's times where I just feel like things are vivid and luminous and visceral and tangible and other times empty. And like, I don't know. It's a very strange enigmatic energy that I think we're all dealing with, and that we're all trying to like come to grasp with here. And yeah, like that. That's all." Yeah, thanks, Reagan. So yeah.
Student: "This is Mark."
Thomas: Maybe just one remark about that. So I think we all, any of us who have spent a little bit of time doing this sort of exercise and contemplation, I think we'll know very well what you're talking about. Because yeah, I think you said it already, you know. So it can become very disorienting and confusing and so on. And at the same time, there's also the sense of something really opening up that we perhaps never even imagined the possibility of before. So it's suddenly very shaky ground that we then suddenly stand on. And we didn't expect it to be like that. We thought that it would be like a long gradual journey to get into, perhaps after some time, some difficult challenges and some very exciting openings. But actually, it comes quite quickly, doesn't it? When you just think thoughtfully about these questions with a sincere and open mind, taking your own opinions seriously, then, for better or worse, suddenly we're in the thick of it. It's not like Buddhist philosophy as some kind of topic that we can learn and study in school and have a relationship with, like, "I'm interested in Buddhist philosophy. You should try that too," that sort of thing. But it's the distinction between Buddhist philosophy and who I am, what this world is, and so on, it begins to disappear. And we're really in the middle of it. What that middle is, I'm not saying the big middle. That would be nice, no, if we had thereby arrived at the great Mādhyamaka . Perhaps we have, but perhaps not quite yet. So this is both the challenge and also the amazing power of these teachings that Nāgārjuna delivers To be honest, nobody expects that it will be like that. It always comes as a surprise, when suddenly the ground begins to disappear. But so, there are several things to keep in mind, because when it becomes like that, it's a very critical situation, obviously. The more serious we become about it, the more critical the situation is. So how to deal with it? In other words, we have to be very practical, and we have to, in other words, approach this as practitioners, whether we like it or not.
If we take Buddhist philosophy that far,
if we take ourselves and the teachings that seriously, then it becomes a practical relationship. What do I do now? So that's what practice is about, knowing stuff like that, what to do.
And the better choices, the better...
Student: "I thank you for saying that, because I think everybody here is taking it that seriously. We're taking it that seriously, that we're here, and we're listening to your discussions. I think that we're all taking it extremely seriously. For me personally, and I'm sure for everybody else, this isn't just another discourse in knowledge and information, but it's actually a life situation where we're all feeling a little bit suspended in midair. Because you start talking about emptiness and interdependence, and like you said, it's a difficult topic to absorb. For me and I think for everybody else, yeah, we're trying to digest it as best as we can, and it's intense, it really is."
Thomas: And then at the same time, it's also something
that we can, again, forbid our words, it's something that we can forget about. It's something that we can take a break from voluntarily or involuntarily. And then it begins to go back to being this sort of Buddhist philosophy class again, or that book that I'm reading, Nāgārjuna's philosophy that I'm into.
So this is, again, the key is to look at our
own life, at our own experience, and see what is my relationship with this stuff? And then we can notice that it intensifies, and then it becomes in the way you talked about. And then we can also just get out from the class, walk out and have a cup of tea if there's someone sitting in front of us who talks about something else, we will probably forget and be in the middle of that conversation. Or like Hume, the Scottish philosopher, said when he retires from his contemplations, which in many ways were similar to this, then he would go and play backgammon, all would be fine and dandy, or something like that. I'm not a scholar of Hume. But just to say that this is something that we do. We go in and out of these intense contemplations. But of course, if we just then retire and say, "Oh, wow, that was really weird, and I don't know what to do with it, but I guess that's how it is with this sort of philosophy," then we don't learn that much from it. At the same time, if we get totally mesmerized by the mystery of it all, and we don't know what to do, then that's not helpful either. So we have to develop some sort of skill, and skill means practice again. So just if we want to learn this as a philosophical endeavor, then we have to go about it in a practical way.
So I think that's interesting to observe in
and of itself, that there is that natural link between this kind of philosophy and practice. The further you take it, the more it becomes a matter of actual practice.
And the more the practice, we become skilled
in taking in this insight, presumably. Our understanding of it will also increase.
So I think what we can then tell ourselves
and note down for ourselves is that probably we have to have some sessions where we do this sort of contemplation. And then we also have to allow ourselves to say, "Okay, when such and such time has passed," perhaps we say, like as we do here, we don't have an indefinite session. We say that it's an hour, and it goes from 10.15 Nepal time to 11.15 Nepal time. And that's it, and then we will do something else. We won't forget about what we learn, but we're not going to sit here until three o'clock unbroken. So that sort of simple structuring in the way that we're used to doing it, we maintain that, but with a view to this practice of exploring the profound philosophy of the Middle Way. So already that can give us some relief. We know, okay, and the advice for how to do that we can also get from very qualified people, from experienced meditators and contemplatives. They can tell us how much we should do it every day and how much time for other stuff we should make. But benefit from this kind of structure takes a little bit the burden off our shoulders. It doesn't mean that it disappears. Of course it doesn't. If we really want to get first hand of direct experience with these things, of course it's not going to be something that will fit into a structure that we just place on ourselves and our life. If it's something that has implications for everything, of course any attempt that we make at structuring will be part of the game too. But still we can allow ourselves to get some structure and relief by during the day, breaking it up in these ways. And it's not just because we are a failure. It's because people actually say that that's the better way to do it, that it just becomes too intense otherwise. Like sometimes you've got to take a break. Simple advice but profound advice. So sometimes, like I think you said, your teachers had said, go for a walk and stuff like that. No, it is very profound actually. And suddenly perhaps our experience of what we've been learning will be much richer, much more alive if we skillfully let ourselves forget about it. Then suddenly it comes perhaps much more into focus. So this just some, so much of what this text is about is really a matter of method and methodology. Like when you talk about Mādhyamaka and what it is the text says, so much of what the talk will be about has to do with practical things. It's interesting, yeah?
So that's that.
And furthermore, one thing that is really important to keep in mind also is that in the same way that we have the structure during the day of sessions and breaks and just noticing, even if it's not that we have said my day is structured in these ways, just noticing the way we go in and out of breaks and sort of acknowledging that and trying to benefit from that natural pulse as much as we can. Another thing, similarly, the contemplation itself, like the session of analytic meditation is also... has some structure. Just like the day as a whole has structure, the analytic meditation is also very structured.
Because right now we are considering just one question, yeah?
We're considering at this particular time, we're considering only one question, and that is if the body is not evidence and in fact counter evidence for the existence of a simple, singular, permanent agent, then what else are my reasons for believing that there is such an agent? That's the only question that we need to keep in mind. So that also enables us to go further, because otherwise it can very soon become like, but "hey, wait, then what? What about everything?" All sorts of questions begin to come in. That's fine. Also, of course, sooner or later we will have to deal with those questions, but not now. We don't have to do that now, and we shouldn't do that now, because if we do, OK, we can do it, but quite soon we'll notice that we aren't getting very much further by just... then we're beginning to maintain our natural tendency to just think about things. We can call it contemplation or what, no? But it'll be our usual tendency to... very nice and profound tendency that human beings have to think about things, but it's not this sort of penetrating analysis that Nāgārjuna otherwise can force ourselves into, or invite us to engage in. So it's very important to keep in mind what is the issue right now? And then if we come to a conclusion, like we said, now we have reached a conclusion about the body. The body is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of a simple individual. That's just one thing that we can check now. So whenever we begin to think again, but you know, "I have my body, so I must be an individual," then we can tell ourselves, "no, that doesn't work at all. I know that very well." So that means we have actually progressed, and there's a whole range of things that we don't need to think about anymore. So that is the amazing thing in the way that Nāgārjuna takes this structure, that it allows us to make all these checks. And then we'll see.
So what we were now considering is if the
body is not that sort of evidence, then what? And someone said that I have thoughts, I think, and so I am, and I have feelings. It's me who has those feelings. It's my thoughts. And about that, we can say that even the way we speak about it is evidence of this not really being what we want here, and what we need here, which would be like we're looking for; okay, we say that it is evidence of the existence of me, but we're not identifying those thoughts with me here, because we do indeed say my thoughts and my feelings and so on. So there's a clear separation between me and then the thoughts. But then why do we take them as evidence of me?
Why it's the same thing that we noticed with
the body, we can notice about mental events too, the myriad of them, they are very different. Like also, it was already mentioned, now we go through so many experiences, so many perceptions, ideas, thoughts, sensations. It's never the same, literally. So if it's never the same, then again we have come to something that is the opposite of permanent. And if it is so many things, then again, we have come to something that is the opposite of single, singular, simple. So again, we were looking for simplicity and constancy, and instead we find complexity and change. So why? Why is, could that possibly, how could that possibly be evidence of my existence? Any thoughts about that?
Student: "I'd like to speak more to the habit of self,
if possible, the habit of self and the habit of eye clinging. So I feel like I can have, one can have all these experiences of non-self, no-self, very obvious the aggregates are not a self. Objects of clinging, I go throughout my day and there's, it's just more like reactions, right, or habits. And yet, even after experiences of non-self, someone annoys me and I snap at them, or yesterday was my birthday and so I had all these thoughts about that it's my birthday, which is really very silly because I've had seven bodies, or no, I've had a body every seven years and it's just that people tell me that my body was born on that day, that body's not, I'm not a baby.
So this resting in the nature of reality and then,
we can have these moments and then returning to habit of selfing. One time I was talking with Khyen Lodrö Thayé about this and asking like, you know, why? And what is the cause of ignorance? Okay, it's a cycle, but like, how does this arise? And he said, it's just like when the mind rests in non-dual awareness and then returns to samsara. And so, like, that's no different than how sentient beings arise in the first place. And my understanding is that, you know, over time, as I practice on the path, you know, this thins, the habit to selfing thins, or the habit to, I should say grasping at a provisional self thins. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with just like, you know, it takes time. But I'm wondering if you can speak to that, you know, because I feel like we're talking about this, like, do we perceive a self? And then there's sort of a discussion of like, yes, and you know, maybe if only I could perceive no self. But I think that for so many people on the path, there is the experience of no self over and over again, and yet we return to samsara. So I'm wondering if you could speak about that habit to picking up samsara again, picking up the self again. And yeah, and like, obviously at a certain, you know, this habit thins. And it's also difficult, right? Because we're people, you know, one of the things I think that perpetuates the habit is our environment. People telling us, "You are this." And yeah, it takes a lot of confidence to move toward a greater reality, I think. And a provisional self isn't bad or useless. It's useful, especially if we want to bring benefit to beings. I mean, it's a lot easier with a body to give a meal, right? And then I need to keep giving meals to myself if I want this body to continue doing these things." things. CORTAR ESSE But we were just saying that the body is not that. So this is like one example of how we can then remember what we have gone through, you know, is to say that a body is useful. It's suddenly very, very useful. But the body is not self. So for example, but thanks a lot, there are many things there. And I think this is something that we can and should keep in mind continuously as we go. And probably the relevance of what you say will become increasingly clear as we go on as well. Because first, perhaps what it makes a lot of difference if we have like if we say, okay, self is habit.
And what else did you say?
Yeah, habit.
But it makes a lot of difference if we have tried
to see, okay, first of all, do I think of myself in the way that the Buddha says sentient beings perceive themselves? As singular and permanent individual in control of actions. Not that that's the whole story about sentient beings, far from it. But there is something about being a sentient being that has to do with this. So are those beliefs actually founded in something, or are they only half good? Are they somehow partially okay, but there's also a lot that is wrong about it? Or are they completely baseless? If we have figured, if we have thought very hard about that and come to some conclusion about that, then the whole question of the self being habit and what happens when things happen, when the kind of clarity that we feel we have come to suddenly disappears, and there's something else that seems much more completely as usual and mundane and painful, whatever we have.
What is going on then?
That question takes on a very different flavor if we have gone through the investigation. So this is what we're trying to do, begin at the beginning, so to speak. And then your question and the points that you address, they will be there with us as we go, and they will probably, whatever answers we have, will probably change as we go also.
So at this point we have said that
the body is not evidence of a singular, permanent agent, and nor is the mind, perceptions and so on. They are not only evidence that we cannot use, but they are evidence that force on us the opposite conclusion of what we wanted. Because the complexity of consciousness and experience and perception is the opposite of the simplicity of individuality and constancy.
And then we can ask ourselves, then we can
contemplate a little bit, "okay, if we come to the point where we can say, yes, I can't see it any other way, the body and mind are not evidence of self in any way whatsoever." Self, what self? Again very importantly, a singular, permanent agent. When I look at my body, when I look at my mind, I find zero evidence of that. I can think of such a thing, of course, such an individual, but it's just one thought and that thought is not the individuality that we're talking about. So if we have come to that kind of conclusion, then we can rest in that and just acknowledge that now I know this, that says, has a whole
lot of, I thought these were like supernatural
reasons for explaining my belief in self that I have a body and I have a mind, I see things and so on. But now I realize that they don't work at all, on the contrary. So then if we can just take that in as the Dalai Lama encourages us to do in this context, to rest in the insight that we arrive at. Then, yeah, then I
think that is important
that we do, that whenever it is the case that we have come to a very clear understanding. So whether we have that or not, of course, is an open question. If it's still not clear to us that the fact of the body and the facts of mind are not in any way evidence of singular permanent agency, then we have to keep it going and explore further. But whenever that sense of, "yeah, this is amazing, I thought there was such a natural connection, but now I see there's none whatsoever. In fact, how could I ever get that idea? All the evidence seems to point in exactly the opposite direction." Then just allow that understanding to sink in, in whichever way we might let that happen.
Because then once we continue, we can
move on to something, to other questions. And our perspective will have changed now. Our understanding will have changed. And our feeling and perception of things will also be flavored by whatever it is that we have understood.
In the general context, among Śrāvakas,
I suppose it's fair to say that this kind of insight is very crucial, because
when we do that,
when we try to take in the message that we have received through our own inquiry relating to the questions that are being presented in the teachings, then when we come to that understanding, then we can go back to the twelve links of dependent origination and ask ourselves: "So, how can they then run that way, if there isn't someone there actually? If there isn't someone there to experience the whole and perpetuate the whole process, then why? If there is not this individual who owns these perceptions, who owns this body, who is in charge of it, who is responsible for it, who has to deal with it, then why these strong emotions that I need to prevail, I need to get what I want, and I need to avoid any threat?" Who am I talking about? Who is it that needs to be protected and who is it that needs to be taken care of? And in other words, it then becomes possible to loosen the grasping that otherwise keeps the wheel spinning. The loosening of the grasping is possible because of insight into the absence of this particular type of self. By virtue of that, in meditation practice and in our daily lives, we can become less bound by our own tendencies. So that is what the fundamental Buddhist teaching is, I suppose, that by becoming increasingly aware of this absence of any person of this kind, this non-existence of personal self, then actually all the bounds and all the ties of existence can be cut through, and it's possible to arrive ultimately through a process of familiarizing oneself with this insight, and being in tune with it, acknowledging it, acting in a way that acknowledges and is informed by this insight, it's possible to break the conditioning that otherwise keeps the wheel spinning. And so complete freedom, complete liberation, that is the Buddhist promise, that if you keep the contemplation, the process of learning, reflecting and meditating on the basis of healthy rules for living your life, if you keep that going, then the entire burden will fall off your shoulders, you will be completely free. That is the ultimate fruition then of the path of Śrāvaka, to become someone who has conquered the enemy of the negative emotions. But what we can also notice is that here we have not there are so many things that remain, and that's all okay. There are so many things that are not, in in fact, all what there is, a is that which is not that person, not that individual who is singular and enduring and in control. Apart from that, it's all here.
And that's perfectly good and necessary and
a factual observation according to these teachings. We have dependent origination is not a story of an individual, it's a story about, or it's an account of psychophysical elements, the aggregates, the sense sources, and so on, that interact, and in their interaction there arises this mirage of a self, an individual who becomes a focal point, that ties everything up, and so there is bondage where there could be complete freedom.
But that, in a sense, is all what we need to acknowledge.
Then we just need to live our life in a way that supports the contemplation of this kind, just quote and quote, but nevertheless, it's a simple, peaceful insight that we can bring to mind continuously, and we just need to find, going about things in a practical and balanced way, a way to live our lives that supports that insight. Then the journey towards liberation is unfolding.
But now, when we read the homage, then what is it Nāgārjuna says?
"That which originates dependently," like the like the links of dependent origination, "does not cease and does not arise." So the whole account of life and death, if if there's no cessation and no arising, then what?
All those things that we said are there regardless,
regardless of the insight into the non-existence of a person. What now to say of all of those? Nāgārjuna says that the Buddha teaches that dependent origination equals no cessation and no arising, no annihilation, no permanence, no coming and no going, and also difference and sameness.
So that the path to that we just began to
notice before, that we just began to notice the possibility of, by thinking how it's possible to loosen the grip of the kleśas, by understanding that there is no individual, by understanding very clearly, first of all intellectually, and that's what we've been trying to do, that there is no such person, period. And then not just leaving it a belief, but taking it as a fact, as we kind of owe ourselves, if we have come to a 100% clear conclusion, to the extent that we can't, then we owe it to ourselves to also take that as a fact. If we have said, "I've given it all I can and I've come to this conclusion, I'm sure," then at that time, whatever it is that we're sure about, we can rely on as a fact. So by relying on the non-existence of a permanent singular individual, we saw that it's possible to now be in the world in a very different way, in a way that is not driven by negative emotions, but instead a sort of unraveling of the ties that otherwise hold us. So now when we hear this account of dependent origination or this declaration of dependent origination, what happens to that path? The very notion of moving along from one stage to another, and saying goodbye to certain things and welcoming others, that seems to be just as unfounded as the idea of the person came to seem. At this point, we're just looking at the words, and what do they say? They say that dependent origination, whatever it is that originates independence, does not cease and does not arise. It doesn't come to an end and it is not constant. There's no coming and going. And dependent origination, these things that arise in dependence are not identical with each other and they're not different either. And then he says that
this particular, the ability to explain
dependent origination in this way, which in some way seems like just sheer contradiction, dependent origination, entails a notion of something coming into being. But yet Nāgārjuna says because the Buddha shows that dependent origination is unceasing and unarisen, then that is why he is the best of all teachers. So it's exactly 11:15 and perhaps we can then for tomorrow,
yeah, spend some time
going over what we have done in the past few days, which basically has been trying to get a sense of what dependent origination is generally in Buddhism. That's the outer dependent origination in the world. And then very specifically, and that's sort of the highlight of the Buddhist teaching is to explain that there is also dependent origination of the inner 12 links, which we then have spent time looking at, from the perspective of the analysis of the self, trying to ask ourselves the question, "Is there a singular and permanent individual in control of actions? in the way that I think that there is?" And so that I suggest we stick to that, and and try to get some real clarity about that. If we say no, then why do I have the so strong notion of there being such a self? And then again think of the body that we take as such a natural evidence of there being a singular and permanent individual. Think of the thoughts and feelings and whatever else there may be that we ascribe,
that we think of as evidence of such an individual.
And then just notice the mismatch, the complete mismatch of the presumed evidence and that which we are seeking to prove. And then let's try to take that in and see where that then takes us. And also notice all the things that are not damaged, so to speak. What it's like to just see that there is no singular, permanent agent anywhere. What happens to our experience, what happens to our ideas, what happens to our perceptions when we do that? And in particular, what is there then? Try to acknowledge that. And then tomorrow we will get into the first verse of the analysis of conditions which will question
all whatever it is that
we may say that there is nonetheless. Okay, thanks a lot for today and see you.
So, let's begin again our session and we begin by reading aloud the homage. And you may notice that lines C and D of the first slogan have been turned around. A kind person made me aware that the sequence was off, so now I should be right. So let's begin by reading aloud those verses. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, is not annihilated and is not permanent, does not come and does not go, Is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, The complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha I bow down."
And then of course if on top of refuge we can
sort of bring to mind that this is something that can be an opportunity to ultimately benefit all beings, then that is a very nice way to begin I think.
So yesterday we were still trying to get a
sense of what dependent origination is, from a so-called general Buddhist perspective, when we talk about the 12 links of dependent origination Out of interdependent origination, and then the interdependent origination being about how life and death and rebirth occurs by means of, in terms of those 12 links. And we are saying that the Buddha teaches these links in order to point out an unbroken circle, a revolving circle, which is based on ignorance, which is maintained by a certain kind of ignorance. And then we were trying to get a sense of what this ignorance is about. And in the general context of the teachings, ignorance has very much to do with the notion of belief in a person, the existence of a person. What sort of person? A person who is a singular individual and who is permanent in the sense of being the same from one situation to the next, and who is also the agent of actions. It's that person who does things. So I am one person, just me here, and I am in the world, of course, sharing it with other people, but here I am as one person. And I remain me as I go about doing things in the world, and indeed it is me who does these things. So those three notions of singularity, of permanence and of agency being in control of actions, that's what the Buddha says is actually, those are actually all mistaken notions, mistaken ideas.
And then we were saying yesterday,
"Okay, fine, but do we at all believe in this way? Do we at all think of ourselves as singular, permanent agents?"
And that's what we tried to spend a good deal
of time on, trying to notice in our own minds, looking at our own beliefs, ideas, perceptions, what seems to be the case. Do I have the sense of being one person? Do I have the sense of being an ongoing, constant in the world who performs actions? Because if not, then what the Buddha talks about may be interesting for some, but it's not directly relevant to me, because I actually don't think in this way. I don't have this perception of being an individual of this kind. And I think there was agreement. There was nobody who said, "That's not the case. That's not how I think about myself." There were many who said, "This is not the whole story." And that's precisely, you could say perhaps, the Buddha's point in the general context of the teachings. It's far from the whole story, but it's a mistake and those beliefs are mistaken. The nice thing about those beliefs is that we can show very clearly in a clean, thorough fashion, that they are just misconceptions that have no bearing on reality. And then let's see afterwards what we may have to say on the basis of that understanding. But before we get there, of course, we have to see what the Buddha's reason may be for saying that this is a misunderstanding,
a wrong belief to think of oneself as such an individual
And that's why we began to ask ourselves, "So why do I think this way? What's the reason that I have the idea?" Once we have said, "Okay, this is all quite descriptive of my experience and of my beliefs, that I think I'm an individual of this kind," then we said, "But why?" I feel that we also spent a fair amount of time noticing how unquestionable the sense of being here as a person, as an individual, seems to be. How fundamental as a sort of linchpin for so much that it's hard to perhaps imagine what it would be like if there weren't such an individual.
So that may be our intuition and where we immediately think we are at.
But then we also began to think yesterday, "So why do we have this very strong idea, very strong sense that certainly I'm here as a person? It's just me, singularity in that sort of simple, commonsensical fashion.
And it's just me now, just as it was just me
sitting on this chair yesterday, permanence in that simple and commonsensical fashion. So why do I believe like that? What are my reasons for having this spontaneous confidence in being a person of this kind?" And then someone said, "Well, embodiment is really important. It's because there's this body, physical system, whatever we want to call it, living organism, whatever we might want to say about the body, because with that comes very naturally a notion of being an individual of this kind."
But what did we do then?
We said, "Okay, let's then look at this presence of the body, and take a better look at what is it that we have there."
And when we look at the body, we notice that it is so many things.
Although we can speak about the body and some sense of singularity is apparent in our minds, when we say that, to the extent that we can talk about it with each other, "My body," you're not going to insist that, but actually it's many things. It works very well to say, "My body, your body," and so on. We can do a whole lot of things on that basis. But now we are looking more closely at what is that body that we talk about when we refer in this way. And then we notice that, of course, and we know this already, the body is not just one thing. Obviously it has many limbs and body parts. And those body parts are also made of other body parts. And at a certain point it becomes sort of exotic when we get beyond what can can be immediately seen. Then with the help of science, we can nonetheless explore dimensions of the body, which seem to be there just as much as what is visually perceptible with the naked eye. If we use strong microscopes and whatever else there is of implements, then we can get a sense of very subtle things, and those subtle things, whether those are themselves beings of their own or whether they are part of just my body. Often times that's an open question in biology, what belongs to my body? what belongs to the environment? and so on... A whole lot of questions that open up. In other words, we certainly don't find simplicity looking at the body. And simplicity comes with this notion of "I am here." It couldn't get more simple. So we thought that simplicity is derived from our physical presence. But that's an absurd idea, because not only does the body not support that sort of simple individual, it's clearly the opposite. So how on earth could we think that something that is the exact opposite of what we're trying to get at is evidence of this individual? It would be like, I'm always so bad with examples now, but let's try to see if we can find a good one
We say there is water
in the cup because there's fire. That sounds insane. And if we insist on that, then we are absurd.
So actually, otherwise we share the sense
probably that the body, my sense of being here as an embodied being is very powerful evidence of me being a real person. We share that. And now, in just a few moments of thinking, inquiring a little further, what seemed like such a natural recognition is absurd.
So think about that.
Is it absurd? It's hard to see if taking perfect counter-evidence as evidence and insisting nonetheless that it is evidence of a certain something is not absurd, then what is? So that's where we ended, I think, with the body. But of course, okay, we might say, "I am a mental being" perhaps, or "the real me, the real reason that I have this idea of being a singular individual is because I have a soul. That's what gives me this individuality."
Sorry.

So, how about, yeah, what else evidence would that be for...
Like personally, what do we think if we just try again to notice exactly my sense of being one individual, not what individuality is or something like that, no? But when we think of ourselves, try to sort of observe ourselves, then exactly the kind of sense of individuality and permanence of individuality that I feel, that I notice, that I think is relevant for me, where does that come from? What's it founded on, if not the body? And what would we then say? What would be our response?
Yes, it was, Thank you.
"I would think if it's not the body, I would think that "I think." So like Descartes, like you said yesterday, "I think, ergo I am." So it's my thoughts and I have some sense of power over them. I mean, I can direct them. I mean, I don't really believe that, but I have a sense of that, I think. But now it's also absurd. It's difficult to say, but I would say thoughts." Yeah. "Probably." Right. "And feelings, which is also embodied in a way. But it's the label, right? It's like tightness in the chest. It could be anxiety. Could also be excitement. It's the same experience, but related to my thoughts and feelings, I think." That also gives us a sense of being an individual. Yeah. "So my feelings, my thoughts."
So, one-- "Hey, hey.
Yeah, OK. Yeah. Student: "Thomas, this is Reagan. The first time we connected was about 10 years ago in Shantideva's Chapter 9 Wisdom context. And your insights and help was so profound, and I'm so happy to be here. I just want to say on this subject that for me personally, I feel like, man, I mean, when it comes to this subject matter, it's so open air, it's so abstract and weird. Like I'll find myself, you know, I mean, like even on a normal basis, I think most people can say that they feel down today or they feel good today. And that energy is there. But I just feel like mentally speaking, like, I mean, like, you know, we're all a little bit freaked out about our experience, man. And we're all here like contemplating death and impermanence and our precious human life. And in this context, like what you're talking about there's times where I just feel like things are vivid and luminous and visceral and tangible and other times empty. And like, I don't know. It's a very strange enigmatic energy that I think we're all dealing with, and that we're all trying to like come to grasp with here. And yeah, like that. That's all." Yeah, thanks, Reagan. So yeah.
Student: "This is Mark."
Thomas: Maybe just one remark about that. So I think we all, any of us who have spent a little bit of time doing this sort of exercise and contemplation, I think we'll know very well what you're talking about. Because yeah, I think you said it already, you know. So it can become very disorienting and confusing and so on. And at the same time, there's also the sense of something really opening up that we perhaps never even imagined the possibility of before. So it's suddenly very shaky ground that we then suddenly stand on. And we didn't expect it to be like that. We thought that it would be like a long gradual journey to get into, perhaps after some time, some difficult challenges and some very exciting openings. But actually, it comes quite quickly, doesn't it? When you just think thoughtfully about these questions with a sincere and open mind, taking your own opinions seriously, then, for better or worse, suddenly we're in the thick of it. It's not like Buddhist philosophy as some kind of topic that we can learn and study in school and have a relationship with, like, "I'm interested in Buddhist philosophy. You should try that too," that sort of thing. But it's the distinction between Buddhist philosophy and who I am, what this world is, and so on, it begins to disappear. And we're really in the middle of it. What that middle is, I'm not saying the big middle. That would be nice, no, if we had thereby arrived at the great Mādhyamaka . Perhaps we have, but perhaps not quite yet. So this is both the challenge and also the amazing power of these teachings that Nāgārjuna delivers To be honest, nobody expects that it will be like that. It always comes as a surprise, when suddenly the ground begins to disappear. But so, there are several things to keep in mind, because when it becomes like that, it's a very critical situation, obviously. The more serious we become about it, the more critical the situation is. So how to deal with it? In other words, we have to be very practical, and we have to, in other words, approach this as practitioners, whether we like it or not.
If we take Buddhist philosophy that far,
if we take ourselves and the teachings that seriously, then it becomes a practical relationship. What do I do now? So that's what practice is about, knowing stuff like that, what to do.
And the better choices, the better...
Student: "I thank you for saying that, because I think everybody here is taking it that seriously. We're taking it that seriously, that we're here, and we're listening to your discussions. I think that we're all taking it extremely seriously. For me personally, and I'm sure for everybody else, this isn't just another discourse in knowledge and information, but it's actually a life situation where we're all feeling a little bit suspended in midair. Because you start talking about emptiness and interdependence, and like you said, it's a difficult topic to absorb. For me and I think for everybody else, yeah, we're trying to digest it as best as we can, and it's intense, it really is."
Thomas: And then at the same time, it's also something
that we can, again, forbid our words, it's something that we can forget about. It's something that we can take a break from voluntarily or involuntarily. And then it begins to go back to being this sort of Buddhist philosophy class again, or that book that I'm reading, Nāgārjuna's philosophy that I'm into.
So this is, again, the key is to look at our
own life, at our own experience, and see what is my relationship with this stuff? And then we can notice that it intensifies, and then it becomes in the way you talked about. And then we can also just get out from the class, walk out and have a cup of tea if there's someone sitting in front of us who talks about something else, we will probably forget and be in the middle of that conversation. Or like Hume, the Scottish philosopher, said when he retires from his contemplations, which in many ways were similar to this, then he would go and play backgammon, all would be fine and dandy, or something like that. I'm not a scholar of Hume. But just to say that this is something that we do. We go in and out of these intense contemplations. But of course, if we just then retire and say, "Oh, wow, that was really weird, and I don't know what to do with it, but I guess that's how it is with this sort of philosophy," then we don't learn that much from it. At the same time, if we get totally mesmerized by the mystery of it all, and we don't know what to do, then that's not helpful either. So we have to develop some sort of skill, and skill means practice again. So just if we want to learn this as a philosophical endeavor, then we have to go about it in a practical way.
So I think that's interesting to observe in
and of itself, that there is that natural link between this kind of philosophy and practice. The further you take it, the more it becomes a matter of actual practice.
And the more the practice, we become skilled
in taking in this insight, presumably. Our understanding of it will also increase.
So I think what we can then tell ourselves
and note down for ourselves is that probably we have to have some sessions where we do this sort of contemplation. And then we also have to allow ourselves to say, "Okay, when such and such time has passed," perhaps we say, like as we do here, we don't have an indefinite session. We say that it's an hour, and it goes from 10.15 Nepal time to 11.15 Nepal time. And that's it, and then we will do something else. We won't forget about what we learn, but we're not going to sit here until three o'clock unbroken. So that sort of simple structuring in the way that we're used to doing it, we maintain that, but with a view to this practice of exploring the profound philosophy of the Middle Way. So already that can give us some relief. We know, okay, and the advice for how to do that we can also get from very qualified people, from experienced meditators and contemplatives. They can tell us how much we should do it every day and how much time for other stuff we should make. But benefit from this kind of structure takes a little bit the burden off our shoulders. It doesn't mean that it disappears. Of course it doesn't. If we really want to get first hand of direct experience with these things, of course it's not going to be something that will fit into a structure that we just place on ourselves and our life. If it's something that has implications for everything, of course any attempt that we make at structuring will be part of the game too. But still we can allow ourselves to get some structure and relief by during the day, breaking it up in these ways. And it's not just because we are a failure. It's because people actually say that that's the better way to do it, that it just becomes too intense otherwise. Like sometimes you've got to take a break. Simple advice but profound advice. So sometimes, like I think you said, your teachers had said, go for a walk and stuff like that. No, it is very profound actually. And suddenly perhaps our experience of what we've been learning will be much richer, much more alive if we skillfully let ourselves forget about it. Then suddenly it comes perhaps much more into focus. So this just some, so much of what this text is about is really a matter of method and methodology. Like when you talk about Mādhyamaka and what it is the text says, so much of what the talk will be about has to do with practical things. It's interesting, yeah?
So that's that.
And furthermore, one thing that is really important to keep in mind also is that in the same way that we have the structure during the day of sessions and breaks and just noticing, even if it's not that we have said my day is structured in these ways, just noticing the way we go in and out of breaks and sort of acknowledging that and trying to benefit from that natural pulse as much as we can. Another thing, similarly, the contemplation itself, like the session of analytic meditation is also... has some structure. Just like the day as a whole has structure, the analytic meditation is also very structured.
Because right now we are considering just one question, yeah?
We're considering at this particular time, we're considering only one question, and that is if the body is not evidence and in fact counter evidence for the existence of a simple, singular, permanent agent, then what else are my reasons for believing that there is such an agent? That's the only question that we need to keep in mind. So that also enables us to go further, because otherwise it can very soon become like, but "hey, wait, then what? What about everything?" All sorts of questions begin to come in. That's fine. Also, of course, sooner or later we will have to deal with those questions, but not now. We don't have to do that now, and we shouldn't do that now, because if we do, OK, we can do it, but quite soon we'll notice that we aren't getting very much further by just... then we're beginning to maintain our natural tendency to just think about things. We can call it contemplation or what, no? But it'll be our usual tendency to... very nice and profound tendency that human beings have to think about things, but it's not this sort of penetrating analysis that Nāgārjuna otherwise can force ourselves into, or invite us to engage in. So it's very important to keep in mind what is the issue right now? And then if we come to a conclusion, like we said, now we have reached a conclusion about the body. The body is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of a simple individual. That's just one thing that we can check now. So whenever we begin to think again, but you know, "I have my body, so I must be an individual," then we can tell ourselves, "no, that doesn't work at all. I know that very well." So that means we have actually progressed, and there's a whole range of things that we don't need to think about anymore. So that is the amazing thing in the way that Nāgārjuna takes this structure, that it allows us to make all these checks. And then we'll see.
So what we were now considering is if the
body is not that sort of evidence, then what? And someone said that I have thoughts, I think, and so I am, and I have feelings. It's me who has those feelings. It's my thoughts. And about that, we can say that even the way we speak about it is evidence of this not really being what we want here, and what we need here, which would be like we're looking for; okay, we say that it is evidence of the existence of me, but we're not identifying those thoughts with me here, because we do indeed say my thoughts and my feelings and so on. So there's a clear separation between me and then the thoughts. But then why do we take them as evidence of me?
Why it's the same thing that we noticed with
the body, we can notice about mental events too, the myriad of them, they are very different. Like also, it was already mentioned, now we go through so many experiences, so many perceptions, ideas, thoughts, sensations. It's never the same, literally. So if it's never the same, then again we have come to something that is the opposite of permanent. And if it is so many things, then again, we have come to something that is the opposite of single, singular, simple. So again, we were looking for simplicity and constancy, and instead we find complexity and change. So why? Why is, could that possibly, how could that possibly be evidence of my existence? Any thoughts about that?
Student: "I'd like to speak more to the habit of self,
if possible, the habit of self and the habit of eye clinging. So I feel like I can have, one can have all these experiences of non-self, no-self, very obvious the aggregates are not a self. Objects of clinging, I go throughout my day and there's, it's just more like reactions, right, or habits. And yet, even after experiences of non-self, someone annoys me and I snap at them, or yesterday was my birthday and so I had all these thoughts about that it's my birthday, which is really very silly because I've had seven bodies, or no, I've had a body every seven years and it's just that people tell me that my body was born on that day, that body's not, I'm not a baby.
So this resting in the nature of reality and then,
we can have these moments and then returning to habit of selfing. One time I was talking with Khyen Lodrö Thayé about this and asking like, you know, why? And what is the cause of ignorance? Okay, it's a cycle, but like, how does this arise? And he said, it's just like when the mind rests in non-dual awareness and then returns to samsara. And so, like, that's no different than how sentient beings arise in the first place. And my understanding is that, you know, over time, as I practice on the path, you know, this thins, the habit to selfing thins, or the habit to, I should say grasping at a provisional self thins. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with just like, you know, it takes time. But I'm wondering if you can speak to that, you know, because I feel like we're talking about this, like, do we perceive a self? And then there's sort of a discussion of like, yes, and you know, maybe if only I could perceive no self. But I think that for so many people on the path, there is the experience of no self over and over again, and yet we return to samsara. So I'm wondering if you could speak about that habit to picking up samsara again, picking up the self again. And yeah, and like, obviously at a certain, you know, this habit thins. And it's also difficult, right? Because we're people, you know, one of the things I think that perpetuates the habit is our environment. People telling us, "You are this." And yeah, it takes a lot of confidence to move toward a greater reality, I think. And a provisional self isn't bad or useless. It's useful, especially if we want to bring benefit to beings. I mean, it's a lot easier with a body to give a meal, right? And then I need to keep giving meals to myself if I want this body to continue doing these things." things. CORTAR ESSE But we were just saying that the body is not that. So this is like one example of how we can then remember what we have gone through, you know, is to say that a body is useful. It's suddenly very, very useful. But the body is not self. So for example, but thanks a lot, there are many things there. And I think this is something that we can and should keep in mind continuously as we go. And probably the relevance of what you say will become increasingly clear as we go on as well. Because first, perhaps what it makes a lot of difference if we have like if we say, okay, self is habit.
And what else did you say?
Yeah, habit.
But it makes a lot of difference if we have tried
to see, okay, first of all, do I think of myself in the way that the Buddha says sentient beings perceive themselves? As singular and permanent individual in control of actions. Not that that's the whole story about sentient beings, far from it. But there is something about being a sentient being that has to do with this. So are those beliefs actually founded in something, or are they only half good? Are they somehow partially okay, but there's also a lot that is wrong about it? Or are they completely baseless? If we have figured, if we have thought very hard about that and come to some conclusion about that, then the whole question of the self being habit and what happens when things happen, when the kind of clarity that we feel we have come to suddenly disappears, and there's something else that seems much more completely as usual and mundane and painful, whatever we have.
What is going on then?
That question takes on a very different flavor if we have gone through the investigation. So this is what we're trying to do, begin at the beginning, so to speak. And then your question and the points that you address, they will be there with us as we go, and they will probably, whatever answers we have, will probably change as we go also.
So at this point we have said that
the body is not evidence of a singular, permanent agent, and nor is the mind, perceptions and so on. They are not only evidence that we cannot use, but they are evidence that force on us the opposite conclusion of what we wanted. Because the complexity of consciousness and experience and perception is the opposite of the simplicity of individuality and constancy.
And then we can ask ourselves, then we can
contemplate a little bit, "okay, if we come to the point where we can say, yes, I can't see it any other way, the body and mind are not evidence of self in any way whatsoever." Self, what self? Again very importantly, a singular, permanent agent. When I look at my body, when I look at my mind, I find zero evidence of that. I can think of such a thing, of course, such an individual, but it's just one thought and that thought is not the individuality that we're talking about. So if we have come to that kind of conclusion, then we can rest in that and just acknowledge that now I know this, that says, has a whole
lot of, I thought these were like supernatural
reasons for explaining my belief in self that I have a body and I have a mind, I see things and so on. But now I realize that they don't work at all, on the contrary. So then if we can just take that in as the Dalai Lama encourages us to do in this context, to rest in the insight that we arrive at. Then, yeah, then I
think that is important
that we do, that whenever it is the case that we have come to a very clear understanding. So whether we have that or not, of course, is an open question. If it's still not clear to us that the fact of the body and the facts of mind are not in any way evidence of singular permanent agency, then we have to keep it going and explore further. But whenever that sense of, "yeah, this is amazing, I thought there was such a natural connection, but now I see there's none whatsoever. In fact, how could I ever get that idea? All the evidence seems to point in exactly the opposite direction." Then just allow that understanding to sink in, in whichever way we might let that happen.
Because then once we continue, we can
move on to something, to other questions. And our perspective will have changed now. Our understanding will have changed. And our feeling and perception of things will also be flavored by whatever it is that we have understood.
In the general context, among Śrāvakas,
I suppose it's fair to say that this kind of insight is very crucial, because
when we do that,
when we try to take in the message that we have received through our own inquiry relating to the questions that are being presented in the teachings, then when we come to that understanding, then we can go back to the twelve links of dependent origination and ask ourselves: "So, how can they then run that way, if there isn't someone there actually? If there isn't someone there to experience the whole and perpetuate the whole process, then why? If there is not this individual who owns these perceptions, who owns this body, who is in charge of it, who is responsible for it, who has to deal with it, then why these strong emotions that I need to prevail, I need to get what I want, and I need to avoid any threat?" Who am I talking about? Who is it that needs to be protected and who is it that needs to be taken care of? And in other words, it then becomes possible to loosen the grasping that otherwise keeps the wheel spinning. The loosening of the grasping is possible because of insight into the absence of this particular type of self. By virtue of that, in meditation practice and in our daily lives, we can become less bound by our own tendencies. So that is what the fundamental Buddhist teaching is, I suppose, that by becoming increasingly aware of this absence of any person of this kind, this non-existence of personal self, then actually all the bounds and all the ties of existence can be cut through, and it's possible to arrive ultimately through a process of familiarizing oneself with this insight, and being in tune with it, acknowledging it, acting in a way that acknowledges and is informed by this insight, it's possible to break the conditioning that otherwise keeps the wheel spinning. And so complete freedom, complete liberation, that is the Buddhist promise, that if you keep the contemplation, the process of learning, reflecting and meditating on the basis of healthy rules for living your life, if you keep that going, then the entire burden will fall off your shoulders, you will be completely free. That is the ultimate fruition then of the path of Śrāvaka, to become someone who has conquered the enemy of the negative emotions. But what we can also notice is that here we have not there are so many things that remain, and that's all okay. There are so many things that are not, in in fact, all what there is, a is that which is not that person, not that individual who is singular and enduring and in control. Apart from that, it's all here.
And that's perfectly good and necessary and
a factual observation according to these teachings. We have dependent origination is not a story of an individual, it's a story about, or it's an account of psychophysical elements, the aggregates, the sense sources, and so on, that interact, and in their interaction there arises this mirage of a self, an individual who becomes a focal point, that ties everything up, and so there is bondage where there could be complete freedom.
But that, in a sense, is all what we need to acknowledge.
Then we just need to live our life in a way that supports the contemplation of this kind, just quote and quote, but nevertheless, it's a simple, peaceful insight that we can bring to mind continuously, and we just need to find, going about things in a practical and balanced way, a way to live our lives that supports that insight. Then the journey towards liberation is unfolding.
But now, when we read the homage, then what is it Nāgārjuna says?
"That which originates dependently," like the like the links of dependent origination, "does not cease and does not arise." So the whole account of life and death, if if there's no cessation and no arising, then what?
All those things that we said are there regardless,
regardless of the insight into the non-existence of a person. What now to say of all of those? Nāgārjuna says that the Buddha teaches that dependent origination equals no cessation and no arising, no annihilation, no permanence, no coming and no going, and also difference and sameness.
So that the path to that we just began to
notice before, that we just began to notice the possibility of, by thinking how it's possible to loosen the grip of the kleśas, by understanding that there is no individual, by understanding very clearly, first of all intellectually, and that's what we've been trying to do, that there is no such person, period. And then not just leaving it a belief, but taking it as a fact, as we kind of owe ourselves, if we have come to a 100% clear conclusion, to the extent that we can't, then we owe it to ourselves to also take that as a fact. If we have said, "I've given it all I can and I've come to this conclusion, I'm sure," then at that time, whatever it is that we're sure about, we can rely on as a fact. So by relying on the non-existence of a permanent singular individual, we saw that it's possible to now be in the world in a very different way, in a way that is not driven by negative emotions, but instead a sort of unraveling of the ties that otherwise hold us. So now when we hear this account of dependent origination or this declaration of dependent origination, what happens to that path? The very notion of moving along from one stage to another, and saying goodbye to certain things and welcoming others, that seems to be just as unfounded as the idea of the person came to seem. At this point, we're just looking at the words, and what do they say? They say that dependent origination, whatever it is that originates independence, does not cease and does not arise. It doesn't come to an end and it is not constant. There's no coming and going. And dependent origination, these things that arise in dependence are not identical with each other and they're not different either. And then he says that
this particular, the ability to explain
dependent origination in this way, which in some way seems like just sheer contradiction, dependent origination, entails a notion of something coming into being. But yet Nāgārjuna says because the Buddha shows that dependent origination is unceasing and unarisen, then that is why he is the best of all teachers. So it's exactly 11:15 and perhaps we can then for tomorrow,
yeah, spend some time
going over what we have done in the past few days, which basically has been trying to get a sense of what dependent origination is generally in Buddhism. That's the outer dependent origination in the world. And then very specifically, and that's sort of the highlight of the Buddhist teaching is to explain that there is also dependent origination of the inner 12 links, which we then have spent time looking at, from the perspective of the analysis of the self, trying to ask ourselves the question, "Is there a singular and permanent individual in control of actions? in the way that I think that there is?" And so that I suggest we stick to that, and and try to get some real clarity about that. If we say no, then why do I have the so strong notion of there being such a self? And then again think of the body that we take as such a natural evidence of there being a singular and permanent individual. Think of the thoughts and feelings and whatever else there may be that we ascribe,
that we think of as evidence of such an individual.
And then just notice the mismatch, the complete mismatch of the presumed evidence and that which we are seeking to prove. And then let's try to take that in and see where that then takes us. And also notice all the things that are not damaged, so to speak. What it's like to just see that there is no singular, permanent agent anywhere. What happens to our experience, what happens to our ideas, what happens to our perceptions when we do that? And in particular, what is there then? Try to acknowledge that. And then tomorrow we will get into the first verse of the analysis of conditions which will question
all whatever it is that
we may say that there is nonetheless. Okay, thanks a lot for today and see you.
video
play-rounded-outline
17:27

Root of The Middle Way – Session 04

Exploring the Concept of Self
Teacher: 
Location: 
  • Rangjung Yeshe Institute - Nepal
Description >>

Session 4 delves into dependent origination, revealing how our understanding of a singular, unchanging self is rooted in ignorance. This belief, often associated with our body and mind, is challenged upon deeper examination. Personal reflections, illustrate the depth and fluctuating nature of these discussions. Thomas emphasizes the power of deeply ingrained tendencies or ‘vasanas’ which often lead us back to old patterns of self-identification, even amid profound insights. The discourse highlights the contradictions within the self-concept and introduces Nāgārjuna’s perspective on the interconnectedness of all phenomena. Ultimately, the teachings focus on navigating the balance between relative and absolute truths, aiming for a deeper understanding leading to liberation.

Video
Audio
play-rounded-outline
 
Let's just begin with the verses once more of homage at the beginning of "Root of the Middle Way,"
"That which originates dependently Does not cease and does not arise
Is not annihilated and is not permanent, Does not come and does not go Is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, The complete pacification of constructs, To the perfect Buddha I bow down."
We had the sequence of lines three and four changed.
The sequence was off in the previous version, so this is how it should be.
With the homage and giving rise to the mind of awakening then
Let's get into the subject matter where we have now spent some time trying to understand dependent origination along the lines of Buddhist doctrine in general; Where the outer and inner dependent origination is described with an emphasis on the inner dependent origination-- the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth, which is based on ignorance. And we said that the ignorance can be understood in terms of this belief that there is a self of a certain kind; that there's a self who is singular, who is permanent, and who is in control of the actions that this agent performs.
And yeah, perhaps.

So are there
any questions in general at this point. Or otherwise, if someone would like to sort of give an account of where they are at, in terms of this idea of no self in relation to dependent origination, that would be nice! And I'm thinking that from Monday we can perhaps begin to do this system that they use in the monastic shedra, where we have a jar with people's names and then draw a name or two or three, and then here what? The relevant person has to has to say about perhaps it's nice if we can all think of something that we sort of boil our understanding, current understanding in the context down to, and then Additionally, there can also be some questions that that I will ask and sort of just to keep us... Yeah it can be a nice thing to have it will also be yeah... let's do that and... But at this point is there anyone who would volunteer with some inputs, reflections or questions before we start?
Student: "What about things that seem to form a system where it would seem that there's,
you know, some relative amount, so to speak, to use a common word, some relative amount of 'singularity' even though there's many parts. So I'm thinking I'm thinking of things like forests, in which one doesn't, one doesn't just think of a bunch of random trees and shrubs and animals, and all that sort of stuff, just kind of sitting next to each other so to speak but there's a dynamic and cohesive system, that despite the fact that it's made up of many parts seems to form some sort of unity. Similarly even within, within the body Even though there's there's many parts,
there's an awful lot of communication
between the various parts, I mean, the mind or the brain, if you want to say that one's feelings Shapes the immune system, for example, Impacts heart rate blood pressure, all sorts of things like that.
So there's, you know, despite the fact that there's many parts there is
There's some sort of unity, some sort of singularity.
Okay, I'll I'll leave it at that those
I'm thinking mainly of how things can form coherent, or more or less cohesives systems. I wonder how that fits into this idea of singularity." Yeah, thank you. The singularity that we have been considering here is the singularity of the person. Up until now We won't leave it at that. But up until now, it's the singularity of the of the person and that is...
So and we have in fact we have identified "person" with
someone who is singular and permanent, and in control of actions. Yeah, that's our definition of-- We have defined person in that in that way. So when we say person at this point we are specifically referring to a person who displays these three features of being singular, of being permanent, and in control of actions.
Then we have looked at the body and the mind, which we immediately
recognized is not one body and not one Mind either, but so many things, which again are themselves many things like the forest is not just made of trees. The trees are also made of something and so on. So what you talked about in the beginning, I think, reflects very much a general Buddhist understanding of what a person is. It is a construct based on,
I forgot your exact words, but the the many
factors that are in some sort of systematic interplay, and in this way, gives this certain sense of coherence and endurance, which we associate with being a person. And then we think that there is such a person. And I'm the one actually, I'm precisely such an individual who is just one, and who continues as that one individual in time. But the analysis then shows that all my reasons for thinking of myself in this way are not founded on anything. At least if we look in terms of body and mind. There are other things perhaps that could give us reason to think of a oneness and permanence of personhood. But at this point, that's what we have been doing. But it could be some sort of eternal soul as well, that reflect.. that somehow is the ultimate ground for my belief that I am one And so on, there could be many perhaps ways that one could think philosophically about reasons for this notion of singular, enduring person. But in terms of sort of day-to-day experience and understanding of things common-sensical if we want, then probably
those body and mind are the immediate grounds for our
belief. And we have then seen that there is no such thing to be found there; that the aggregates of our existence and The physical and the mental ones and whatever there may be in terms of their combinations;
those are empty of a singular and enduring person.
To me it sounds like that was that's what you were describing, that those are facts, complex components and complex factors that together enable this
construction of a person.
But it is just a construct, and not ultimately real. So when we are looking for singularity here, and looking for or testing for singularity, testing for permanence, then it is true singularity, true permanence that we're looking for. Not in the sense that the kind of singularity and the kind of permanence that we are looking for is not one that is simply constructed.
So, that I think takes us very far in terms of acknowledging a
basic Buddhist view about persons and so about life too.
Then that is what we have been
focusing on, we have said that if there is that construct, then it's not just any random construct. It's not like thinking about a forest, because sometimes there are forests around and sometimes they're not we can live very well without forests, and there's no sense at all that forest is somehow always in the back of our mind, and conditions our experience. But it's a different case with self, my self, this very spontaneous sense of being here now as an individual, as a constant individual is something that indeed is constantly there to condition our experience, and to Influence our actions very strongly right? Because if there's this notion of Me being here, unquestionably, and not just in this moment, but over time, so that I will have to take into account what happens to me down the line. I'll have to make sure that I get the things that I want, and that I avoid the things that I don't want to have happen to me. So in this way, just the very notion of self comes replete with all what is required for craving and agression, those tendencies will be let there, together with the notion of self, and so we will act also those emotions and that belief in self conscious,
can't just be ignored, they require, impels us, they impel us
into action, and that action is driven by we would say now, ignorance, right? Because it's action that we are forced to engage in. because of a belief that has actually no bearing on reality. And so we have very strong tendencies that are based on this ignorant belief, and when we act in ways that are strongly craving or strongly aggressive, obviously, what contrary to what we think, this will be not a way of maintaining ourselves and keeping ourselves safe and hopefully getting what we want. It's quite the opposite. And that's why they typically are so often, when the Dharma teaching begins that, it will be mentioned that sentient beings they want the best for themselves, but what they do is actually the exact opposite. So it's not an innocent construct self, right? It's one that has huge implications, and hugely negative implications for an individual. And so the Buddhist path at this point has very much to do with seeing through that ignorance, and being able to therefore loosen the grip of those destructive tendencies of craving aggression and so on.
Then you also talked about the body as one.
That is somewhat different and yet also not. And that's what we will begin to gradually consider. So it's quite interesting. We haven't talked about that and that is not intended here that we are supposed to think of the body really as a construct.
But just as the personal self can be
labeled a 'self,' it's also possible to see the same kind of reification and construction with respect to anything else, like the body, as you mentioned. It's the same constructive phenomenon that expresses itself there, when I think, "I have" or "this is a body, one body" and yet, I can understand that this is not one body. It's not a permanent body, far from it. It's quite the contrary. And so the body is a construct based on other components, which themselves are also constructed. But it's an insight which will become much more to the forefront when we continue with the with the examinations. So, again, up until now we have been looking at body and mind and their combinations, and that the their components and the combinations of those components, to see that singular and permanent self is nowhere to be found, in the context of those components.
We noticed yesterday that Nāgārjuna qualifies
dependent origination in this extraordinary way: That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise. Is not annihilated and not permanent, does not come and does not go, is not different and not the same," and then We mark that dependent origination that does not cease and does not arise seems to be a contradiction. And yet, obviously, it doesn't sound as if the speaker of these verses considers it a contradiction, because he also says that this is the mark of the king of teachers, that he can explain dependent origination in these in these terms.
Then we get into the first of the chapters that make up this treatise.
Each of them is an analysis so that's a certain topic which is
the subject of investigation. So just like we have
spent some time now examining the personal self, now in Chapter One, the subject matter, or the topic of that is under investigation, is
causation, causality, the analysis of conditions and the notion that
things take place because of other things, or take place because of something. That's what we're going to investigate. And again investigating it with the help of the structure of the arguments here, but against primarily our own understanding of what it means for something to be dependent on something else. For the existence or the being of something to be dependent, what does it mean for something to be caused? In our mind? From our perspective? That's what we're going to ask ourselves this question, these questions, and that's what we're going to work on making clear to ourselves.
So in the very first verse,
Nāgārjuna he presents what the commentator says is the thesis of Chapter One. Where he says, "not from itself, not from another, not from both, and not uncaused, nowhere does anything ever arise." So again, it's perhaps safe to say that that's an extraordinary way of beginning a philosophical treatise. Or any form of writing as a matter of fact. Perhaps poetry would be an exception, no? If in the first verse of a poem you read something like that, you are already in a space of mind where you're sort of ready to go with strange ideas, and see what they might, what sort of sense you might get, what kind of feeling you might get from them. But if this is meant to be rigorous philosophical investigation, and if this is indeed the thesis, like the root claim that he presents there, "this is what I say, try to defeat it." Then it's very extraordinary, is it not?
"Nowhere does anything ever arise." That
seems to be an impossible conclusion and bound to fail, no? If you have that kind of claim that nothing ever happens anywhere, in any way at all, then how can you expect to be taken seriously? and who would really begin,
who would really say this?
But that is what he does.
Then why/how is this?

So there are four versions of something being able to happen that he says,
regardless of which one of them we look at, it is the case that nowhere does anything ever arise along those lines. So for example, nowhere does anything ever arise from itself. Nowhere does anything ever arise from an other, or from something else. Nowhere does anything ever arise from both, itself or another. And nowhere does anything ever arise in a way that is uncaused.
So there's a tradition of elaborating a fair bit on this first verse,
And I think we should make that effort also, elaborating on it and coming quite.. as clear as we possibly can about what the thesis is, and what the justification for saying this may be.
And again it is very rewarding to begin by
thinking to oneself, or for oneself.
Is that which is under investigation here something
that is relevant to me? Meaning, is this something that I.. is what is investigated here something that I am a believer in? And what is, just like we said, am I a believer in, individuality in the sense of singularity of an individual, and of permanence of an individual, because who knows maybe it's it isn't the case. Maybe we don't have the particular beliefs that the author here is investigating and that doesn't make it uninteresting. If that's the case, it can still be a rewarding philosophical reading. But, of course, it's very different if What is the topic, Is something that I myself am all for; If it's a principle that I'm a hundred percent believer in, and then the treatise says "well, you know, sorry, but you are 100% wrong." That's a very different issue, no? Then if we are considering a particular philosophical view which is then under attack, a philosophical view that we don't have ourselves, therefore first of all, it's probably good to ask ourselves, do we basically.. these four alternatives that are presented in the beginning, they can be boiled down to two variations of something happening. They take as a given that something happens.
Something could happen by things being produced from themselves,
from other things, from both, or they could happen without any causal dependence. So actually to really notice whether we are.. whether The view that is under investigation here is one that we share, then we first of all have to ask ourselves: "Do I believe that something happens, or that things happen?" Because if I don't, you know, I mean it's a very... Let's say that that we had a version of saying that I don't believe that anything ever happens. Then, again, we could perhaps agree with the conclusion or, in any case, whatever may be, yeah, we could agree with the conclusion. And so there would be no need to, On a personal level, to go any further. So do I believe that things happen?
Is there any, what would you say about that?

Of course we do, yeah...

Of course we do.

So it's still probably good to try to think
"why do I think that something happens?"
It's not some doctrine that I have,
that I'm a believer in the in the happening of things. It seems to be such a basic rudimentary acknowledgement that it is beyond belief almost. It's just the world is like that. It's full of things that happen, no? And if there's ever such a thing as an obvious fact, then that that would be it.
And because that is the case, because it seems so obvious,
then that's why it sounds strange to ask "Do I believe this?" because precisely, obviously how could it be otherwise, who could possibly believe otherwise? It's possible to say something else, but really believe it? It's very, very difficult to even imagine what it would be like not to think I really believe nothing ever happens.
So.

In other words, it seems we are getting
at something very very fundamental about not just our beliefs, but also the world, when we investigate this.
But then if these four options are given.
The first three they are of a similar kind because they all three are variants of the idea that when things happen, then there's something that makes them happen.
There are certain things that have to be
in place for certain other things to occur. There are causes and conditions, whatever we may, whichever way we may want to identify those, that's a different issue. There are myriads of ways that this can be done, but here the basic idea is just that things aren't random. They happen for reasons, not necessarily for reasons, but because of certain things-- causes and conditions. Then the the fourth option is different. It says that actually there are no causes, things just happen. It may seem as if they happen because of something else, but really that's not the case. They just... It just happened the way they do, randomly, spontaneously..


We said that we believe that things happen.

Now we have seen two variants of
believing something about the way things happen. One, things happen in a way that is causally conditioned and another, not so-- Independent of causes and conditions. Would it be fair to say that if something happens, then it would have to be In either of those two ways? That either of those two further explanations about what it means for something to happen necessarily apply? Is that the case or not? That's also super important to ask myself. Because if there's a third option which is not considered here, then the whole... If all what we're going to do is to look at the four variants here, and they aren't fully exhaustive as for the nature of causation, then whether we can refute them or not as viable explanations of the fact that things happen, doesn't matter, because there's still further options that aren't considered. And alternatively, if we can come to the, to a very clear conclusion that if something happens it would have to be that either of these two scenarios apply, then whatever conclusion we get to about these four alternatives will be totally binding, no? Whatever we then conclude about. So if we fail, in other words, to find a place for the notion of arising, in terms of those four, that means that we have to give up the very idea of things happening. And we just said that that is an almost inconceivable stance to take. How could anyone believe that? And yet if we say that when things happen, either they happen because of something or not. And if we say that there's therefore no third option, and we cannot find any justification for either belief, then we are forced into that into that absurd conclusion.
Therefore what would we say?
What would be an example of arising which is not causal arising and which is not random?
Student: "Maybe it's the belief that things happen because of destiny or
or some kind of predestination because of a divine being." Uh-huh, but that would be a fine example of arising because of something. Things happen because of that divine being yeah. Then we can ask is that divine being and the thing that the divine being produces, Are those two identical? If we can say yes, they are, and that's how things arise then we have found That things arise from themselves. And if we say that no the divine being is different from the creation, then there would be a variant of the second option, that things arise from another. Or if we say that well, it's.., That's God and then there's the creation. And in some ways they're the same. There's this divine spark perhaps, you know, And at the same time they're different, because one is the creator and the other is the creation. Then there would be a variant of both.
But this is exactly the way
to think, like, ok there must be other.. It seems so simple,no? We're talking about the very idea of things happening, and then we say: Well, "you know, it actually just comes down to two options." It seems very sort of what to say aloof, and and sort of presumptuous to say that that the whole story about, in a way, you know a whole story about things happening can be captured in just two variants of arising. It seems very dry and well, whatever else we can say, you know, there's something that makes us suspicious, if someone speaks in this way. "Ok, do you believe something happens or not?" And we say "yes of course, we do, don't you?" Then the next thing that happens is that that person then says: "Well, if you have that belief then you are committed to one of only two positions." That will be sort of irritating, no? To get that sort of response.
But is it true or not? That's what we have to ask ourselves.
So if it's not true, then that means there has to be some way of expressing the idea of things happening which is not a causal account and which is not a statement of that things are random. So is such a thing possible? And now we just considered the divine creator principle, to see whether that would be an example of a third order arising. But then we sort of tersely said that "no, that would be an example of the first caused arising." Yeah, okay.
Student: "And what about awareness?"
Awareness?
So the question then would be: awareness,
is it something that arises? That happens? but the arising is not, the arising is not dependent on something, it just happens. Sorry, it's not dependent on... What am I trying to say? We will have to ask: awareness, is it sorry, awareness, is it the case that awareness does not arise because of certain things? It's not a dependent arising? And at the same time is not random. Yeah, so that's what we're considering now.
Could awareness be an instance of something that does indeed happen?
But when it happens neither is it the case that, that it is a causal phenomenon, nor is it the case that it just arises spontaneously?
Is there place for thinking of awareness
in some alternative fashion?
Student: "Sometimes awareness can be deluded
but it is always there."
So if it's always there, then it doesn't arise, yeah?
So then it's not what we are looking at here, we're talking about about things that happen. The strange thing is we could say, if awareness is always there,
then it doesn't happen. So we are talking about something that never happens.
Is that descriptive of awareness?
But anyway, we're looking at...we're looking at
the idea that things happen. And then we're trying to see.. so all the things that don't happen, we don't have to bother about here, whatever they may be. Like horns of a rabbit and so on. No, this is not what we are examining. We're examining those things that actually seem to take place. And then we are asking: is it always the case that when something happens, an event a thing that comes seemingly goes into existence, becomes an existent thing, when something that is born, arises, whatever we say, you know, is it the case that we can always, no matter what example of something emerging we may come up with, that it happens because of something? Or is it just a random occurrence that has nothing.. that is under no causal restriction at all?
Awareness, if it does indeed happen then,
I'm not sure how we would be able to see it as something that either just happens completely randomly, without any causal story at all, or something that is somehow like you say, it can be deluded or not, and then that is under the influence of things. And if it is something that participates in somehow causal relationships, then it's a dependent entity, which then falls under the first category.
Student: "So I mean, I guess I could say that
I don't believe that things happen, but I can't deny that I'm experiencing. You know, so I would have to say that I experience things, and I experience that things function in a certain way." Yeah, so I think that then at least your experience takes place, no? "Yeah." Student: "Yeah, I believe my experience. I don't believe that things happen." Okay, fine. Yeah, but your experience happens, if we can say that much then we are still, we are still as affected by the, we are still, We still subscribe to the basic view in exactly the same way, I think, fundamentally, whether we say that really the world is made of things that
go in and out of existence, or whether we say, as a
matter of fact, I don't believe there is a world, but I believe in my experience of the world, and that experience occurs, then we're still believers in the notion of things happening, of things taking place, the things are then just a different kind of thing. It's experiential events and entities that we're talking about. Student: "But I come into a problem because even if I don't believe my experience, my experience doesn't cease." Mm-hmm. Yeah, so there's tons of... Yeah, at this point, we're just asking whether we we share this basic orientation, and sort of core heartfelt belief that things, that things happen. And we're not saying anything more about whether it's justified or not. We just say: "Do I believe that things happen or not?" Student: "Are we just.. I mean...sorry... What is our like very specific definition of 'happening'? I'm still actually yeah... Is it that they arise or..?" It's whatever we put individually think of as happening. That's another interesting thing about this treatise, that there's usually no need for definitions from anywhere else than our than the ones that we always come with, that we come with, ourselves. There will be a number of philosophical principles introduced, but only to be... What to say? Yeah, there will be some Buddhist principles that will be introduced and then refuted, but in order to really get something,
get somewhere with the
progressive reasoning, what is by far most important is to think what do I mean by 'arising?'
Yeah, 'happening,' yeah, in this case
we've been talking about 'happening' and then if If I feel that yeah, there's things 'happen' and I would like to call that the 'arising' of things. That's how it comes across to me. Then that's fine. That's just my belief about things happening. I'm a believer in things taking place because they seem to arise. But basically, what we if nowhere does anything ever arise, we can we can read that too as simply saying, nowhere does anything ever happen.
Student: "I guess where I'm still at is I don't believe that what I'm experiencing is
intrinsically real. But my experience continues, so I can't help but... I can't even say believe but I'm experiencing it." So there okay, yeah, okay I get it. So I think, that's a very interesting point that you're making, which we will have certainly need to again and again consider, you know? The exact point that you're making that it may be possible to have a belief about the nature of things, that somehow seems to be contradicted by our experience, if I hear correctly. Like I may be convinced that actually nothing ever takes place, perhaps I'm a some believer in Madhyamika and so I 100% believe that Nāgārjuna is right when he says this. But it just doesn't fit with the way I see things, and the way I experience things. So that's totally thorough, entirely possible. And I think we can probably, as we go on with this, that sense of complete contradiction is very likely to come up. A complete contradiction between what we can notice under analysis and what seems to be the case. But what I would say then at this point is that we have to take our experience very seriously, our experience and our beliefs very seriously. So if part of us, so to speak, is still a believer in things happening, just because it seems so undeniable, then that has to be acknowledged. So when we are now asking ourselves these questions, right, then we have to look at the whole package of what we associate with ourselves: our beliefs, our scientific ideas, our religious ideas, our day-to-day thoughts and ideas, and our senses, whatever there may be..is there something anywhere in this great theater that somehow
makes me a subscriber to the notion that things happen?
And if there is some sort of drama taking place then indeed, yeah, I'm still one of those who believe that things happen. Does that make some sense? The key being analyzing really our own thoughts and beliefs.
Then I think you had also a question.

Student: "To me it seems that there are things that
that happen, meaning that they are not, not happening like a horn of a rabbit or, barren woman's son, but they are also, they're neither randomly happening nor depending on other things. I can't think of space, or Buddhahood, right? If I say Buddhahood, it clearly happens. I cannot say.. it does not belong to the same category as the barren woman's son, but then if I say Buddhahood, nor it certainly doesn't happen randomly, but if I say Buddahood happens because of a reason, or because of depending on something else, then it seems to be impermanent. Like if something happens based on something else, then or space right, it seems to be impermanent. So to me it seems there are some things that happen, but doesn't fall neither into these two categories." But why can we then say that Buddhahood happens, if it's not something that happens, because of something and it's not random either. Student: "Well, but how do you define 'happening?' Because if, yeah, therefore, if I say there is arising, then there must be ceasing, but I cannot say that for Buddhahood, so it seems." But maybe there is no Buddhahood then. Actually that is the kind of space of mind that can be very uncomfortable, no? Because we have a lot of hopes also. Let's acknowledge that. If we are practitioners of the Buddhist path and believe and have learned a lot from the Buddhist teachings, and so on, there are so many things that we find super relevant. And that it would be like the thought of having to say that this is just make-believe... It would be terrible, no? But that's nevertheless the kind of space of mind that we should enter when we get into this kind of investigation, yeah? We have to be willing to question absolutely anything, our most cherished beliefs, so that could be just the belief that I am here-- I love that thought and I can't live without it. But it could also be something much more profound than that, like the there must be awakening in the world and so on. But we have to be, we have to be completely fearless in terms of questioning our beliefs.
Because otherwise it won't be satisfying, right? Whatever we figure out
we know in our heart of hearts that there are certain things that we have relegated and chosen not to take under investigation and so okay, we spent some time but whatever we come to understand has only a limited application.
Yeah, there's just a little time.
Student: "Maybe it's similar to what was said from the person online, but I have this notion that of course every everything appears to be happening, things appear to be happening that's not an experience that I can deny. But if I investigate even for a moment, any one of those things that I perceive to be happening, then I agree very easily with this notion that any thing does not arise, right? Does not ever arise. Or no thing happens like there's no singular instant that's ever pinpointable, that is taking place. And so for me when I read this stanza, I'm thinking of 'happening,' that there is 'happening.' Not any 'thing' is happening, but that there is the experience of happening taking place, and that there seems to be some persistence underneath what's said here that could still be a possibility that could both be uncaused, I mean, sorry, that wouldn't be caused or random. Would just be." You are you thinking like in terms of the two truths, you know, is that what you mean? Student: "Maybe. I think I'm just trying to understand dependent origination from this perspective of constant flux, of no snapshot anything, no singular anything." But if yeah, okay.
If there is nevertheless a flux of something, that merits the term flux, then
that happens, right? That certainly happens. I think you also said that, yeah, if there is this flux then the flux happens, and flux is that completely random? Or is there something that makes certain fluctuating events take place, rather than others? Student: "I think the flux literally is 'happening,' meaning, they're the same thing." Fine, and then when this flux takes place, as it does, is there some sense that it is, that there are causes and conditions at play? Or that it's utterly random? "It seems the moment we..." Perhaps the very idea of flux implies not just complete chaos, no? Like is there a difference between talking about flux and utter chaos? Probably, yeah? Student: "One seems more of a judgment than the other. Chaos to me seems like a judgment of something happening, versus flux just being happening itself." Right, so
then we are asking is flux then a
candidate for this third category of not under the influence of conditions and causes, not explicable in terms... not explicable in terms of causes and conditions, and yet not something that just happens the way it does, independent of causes and conditions? Student: "Yes, yeah. I'm suggesting that." So let's try and think about that. We can all do that, try and think about that over the weekend. Why would it be that, what is your notion of flux, in other words? Try to sort of clarify that. Why is it that it's not... why is the flux not something that, why is it not fluctuating conditions that have an influence and on others? And why is it, while we cannot say that, why is it that the flux is not just utterly unpredictable and completely random? Yeah, I think we could all try to think of this that the notion of flux, which also has a history in in like Buddhist English. So is that something that is not affected by causes and conditions? Or is not somehow a framework of causes and conditions, and yet not a random flux? I don't know, in my mind random flux sounds like, like almost.. not a very easy concept to, not a very natural concept Yeah, did you have something to...?
Student: "Hey, hopefully it's helpful,
more sort of another way to state what I think. The previous comments have been pointing toward and what you're pointing toward is when we say something is happening, does that have to be an ontological claim? Do there have to be ontological stakes and reasons, right? And I think what I'm hearing some folks push against, is that it has to be on ontological, that there are no other alternatives. Thinking, you know, of what I consider to be less ontological, more phenomenological, accounts from you know the Madhyāntavibhāga, for example. Yeah, that's also a very, very rich perspective to begin to inquire into. At this point, I think we can also say that the phenomenological perspective, I succeeded in saying it relatively, the phenomenological perspective, if that is one that sees things happening, which it would be, then is the phenomenological perception of these things one that is in terms of, "well, if I look here, I see a white flower. If I look over here, I see something else." In other words, I should turn, if I tire of looking at the white flower I should turn my head over there. That would be like any phenomenological experience, which is within the framework of causes and conditions.
So, we can choose to conduct this analysis in terms of ontology,
but we can also say forget about, I will bracket all that ontological stuff and talk about what just seems to us! That's actually a very good point. That I have been trying to encourage, I suppose, when we say: "What do I mean? How do things come across to me? Rather than
particular claims about what
reality is. What is most important is what do I believe, how do I perceive. That's also a way of saying that the phenomenological perspective is very valuable here and perhaps, yeah, so thank you! Let's then for Monday, think about these questions, think about if someone asks the strange question: "Do things happen?" What would you answer? and then secondly, if you agree that, or if you say "yes things happen," then would you agree with this reduction into just two possible accounts of arising, of things happening? Namely that either there is really, or truly or perhaps just seemingly so, arising in in terms of causes and conditions? Or is it the case that, really or truly, nothing arises causally, or just seemingly things appear to be uncaused? That's what we have to inquire about. So to make sure to check whether we are, whether we are affected by the.. whether we are subscribers to the claims that are under analysis. Because the further course of events depends very much on whether we are, whether the beliefs that are being investigated are our own beliefs and perhaps our own core beliefs, or whether they are just ideas of others. Okay thank you very much and have a great weekend.
Let's just begin with the verses once more of homage at the beginning of "Root of the Middle Way,"
"That which originates dependently Does not cease and does not arise
Is not annihilated and is not permanent, Does not come and does not go Is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, The complete pacification of constructs, To the perfect Buddha I bow down."
We had the sequence of lines three and four changed.
The sequence was off in the previous version, so this is how it should be.
With the homage and giving rise to the mind of awakening then
Let's get into the subject matter where we have now spent some time trying to understand dependent origination along the lines of Buddhist doctrine in general; Where the outer and inner dependent origination is described with an emphasis on the inner dependent origination-- the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth, which is based on ignorance. And we said that the ignorance can be understood in terms of this belief that there is a self of a certain kind; that there's a self who is singular, who is permanent, and who is in control of the actions that this agent performs.
And yeah, perhaps.

So are there
any questions in general at this point. Or otherwise, if someone would like to sort of give an account of where they are at, in terms of this idea of no self in relation to dependent origination, that would be nice! And I'm thinking that from Monday we can perhaps begin to do this system that they use in the monastic shedra, where we have a jar with people's names and then draw a name or two or three, and then here what? The relevant person has to has to say about perhaps it's nice if we can all think of something that we sort of boil our understanding, current understanding in the context down to, and then Additionally, there can also be some questions that that I will ask and sort of just to keep us... Yeah it can be a nice thing to have it will also be yeah... let's do that and... But at this point is there anyone who would volunteer with some inputs, reflections or questions before we start?
Student: "What about things that seem to form a system where it would seem that there's,
you know, some relative amount, so to speak, to use a common word, some relative amount of 'singularity' even though there's many parts. So I'm thinking I'm thinking of things like forests, in which one doesn't, one doesn't just think of a bunch of random trees and shrubs and animals, and all that sort of stuff, just kind of sitting next to each other so to speak but there's a dynamic and cohesive system, that despite the fact that it's made up of many parts seems to form some sort of unity. Similarly even within, within the body Even though there's there's many parts,
there's an awful lot of communication
between the various parts, I mean, the mind or the brain, if you want to say that one's feelings Shapes the immune system, for example, Impacts heart rate blood pressure, all sorts of things like that.
So there's, you know, despite the fact that there's many parts there is
There's some sort of unity, some sort of singularity.
Okay, I'll I'll leave it at that those
I'm thinking mainly of how things can form coherent, or more or less cohesives systems. I wonder how that fits into this idea of singularity." Yeah, thank you. The singularity that we have been considering here is the singularity of the person. Up until now We won't leave it at that. But up until now, it's the singularity of the of the person and that is...
So and we have in fact we have identified "person" with
someone who is singular and permanent, and in control of actions. Yeah, that's our definition of-- We have defined person in that in that way. So when we say person at this point we are specifically referring to a person who displays these three features of being singular, of being permanent, and in control of actions.
Then we have looked at the body and the mind, which we immediately
recognized is not one body and not one Mind either, but so many things, which again are themselves many things like the forest is not just made of trees. The trees are also made of something and so on. So what you talked about in the beginning, I think, reflects very much a general Buddhist understanding of what a person is. It is a construct based on,
I forgot your exact words, but the the many
factors that are in some sort of systematic interplay, and in this way, gives this certain sense of coherence and endurance, which we associate with being a person. And then we think that there is such a person. And I'm the one actually, I'm precisely such an individual who is just one, and who continues as that one individual in time. But the analysis then shows that all my reasons for thinking of myself in this way are not founded on anything. At least if we look in terms of body and mind. There are other things perhaps that could give us reason to think of a oneness and permanence of personhood. But at this point, that's what we have been doing. But it could be some sort of eternal soul as well, that reflect.. that somehow is the ultimate ground for my belief that I am one And so on, there could be many perhaps ways that one could think philosophically about reasons for this notion of singular, enduring person. But in terms of sort of day-to-day experience and understanding of things common-sensical if we want, then probably
those body and mind are the immediate grounds for our
belief. And we have then seen that there is no such thing to be found there; that the aggregates of our existence and The physical and the mental ones and whatever there may be in terms of their combinations;
those are empty of a singular and enduring person.
To me it sounds like that was that's what you were describing, that those are facts, complex components and complex factors that together enable this
construction of a person.
But it is just a construct, and not ultimately real. So when we are looking for singularity here, and looking for or testing for singularity, testing for permanence, then it is true singularity, true permanence that we're looking for. Not in the sense that the kind of singularity and the kind of permanence that we are looking for is not one that is simply constructed.
So, that I think takes us very far in terms of acknowledging a
basic Buddhist view about persons and so about life too.
Then that is what we have been
focusing on, we have said that if there is that construct, then it's not just any random construct. It's not like thinking about a forest, because sometimes there are forests around and sometimes they're not we can live very well without forests, and there's no sense at all that forest is somehow always in the back of our mind, and conditions our experience. But it's a different case with self, my self, this very spontaneous sense of being here now as an individual, as a constant individual is something that indeed is constantly there to condition our experience, and to Influence our actions very strongly right? Because if there's this notion of Me being here, unquestionably, and not just in this moment, but over time, so that I will have to take into account what happens to me down the line. I'll have to make sure that I get the things that I want, and that I avoid the things that I don't want to have happen to me. So in this way, just the very notion of self comes replete with all what is required for craving and agression, those tendencies will be let there, together with the notion of self, and so we will act also those emotions and that belief in self conscious,
can't just be ignored, they require, impels us, they impel us
into action, and that action is driven by we would say now, ignorance, right? Because it's action that we are forced to engage in. because of a belief that has actually no bearing on reality. And so we have very strong tendencies that are based on this ignorant belief, and when we act in ways that are strongly craving or strongly aggressive, obviously, what contrary to what we think, this will be not a way of maintaining ourselves and keeping ourselves safe and hopefully getting what we want. It's quite the opposite. And that's why they typically are so often, when the Dharma teaching begins that, it will be mentioned that sentient beings they want the best for themselves, but what they do is actually the exact opposite. So it's not an innocent construct self, right? It's one that has huge implications, and hugely negative implications for an individual. And so the Buddhist path at this point has very much to do with seeing through that ignorance, and being able to therefore loosen the grip of those destructive tendencies of craving aggression and so on.
Then you also talked about the body as one.
That is somewhat different and yet also not. And that's what we will begin to gradually consider. So it's quite interesting. We haven't talked about that and that is not intended here that we are supposed to think of the body really as a construct.
But just as the personal self can be
labeled a 'self,' it's also possible to see the same kind of reification and construction with respect to anything else, like the body, as you mentioned. It's the same constructive phenomenon that expresses itself there, when I think, "I have" or "this is a body, one body" and yet, I can understand that this is not one body. It's not a permanent body, far from it. It's quite the contrary. And so the body is a construct based on other components, which themselves are also constructed. But it's an insight which will become much more to the forefront when we continue with the with the examinations. So, again, up until now we have been looking at body and mind and their combinations, and that the their components and the combinations of those components, to see that singular and permanent self is nowhere to be found, in the context of those components.
We noticed yesterday that Nāgārjuna qualifies
dependent origination in this extraordinary way: That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise. Is not annihilated and not permanent, does not come and does not go, is not different and not the same," and then We mark that dependent origination that does not cease and does not arise seems to be a contradiction. And yet, obviously, it doesn't sound as if the speaker of these verses considers it a contradiction, because he also says that this is the mark of the king of teachers, that he can explain dependent origination in these in these terms.
Then we get into the first of the chapters that make up this treatise.
Each of them is an analysis so that's a certain topic which is
the subject of investigation. So just like we have
spent some time now examining the personal self, now in Chapter One, the subject matter, or the topic of that is under investigation, is
causation, causality, the analysis of conditions and the notion that
things take place because of other things, or take place because of something. That's what we're going to investigate. And again investigating it with the help of the structure of the arguments here, but against primarily our own understanding of what it means for something to be dependent on something else. For the existence or the being of something to be dependent, what does it mean for something to be caused? In our mind? From our perspective? That's what we're going to ask ourselves this question, these questions, and that's what we're going to work on making clear to ourselves.
So in the very first verse,
Nāgārjuna he presents what the commentator says is the thesis of Chapter One. Where he says, "not from itself, not from another, not from both, and not uncaused, nowhere does anything ever arise." So again, it's perhaps safe to say that that's an extraordinary way of beginning a philosophical treatise. Or any form of writing as a matter of fact. Perhaps poetry would be an exception, no? If in the first verse of a poem you read something like that, you are already in a space of mind where you're sort of ready to go with strange ideas, and see what they might, what sort of sense you might get, what kind of feeling you might get from them. But if this is meant to be rigorous philosophical investigation, and if this is indeed the thesis, like the root claim that he presents there, "this is what I say, try to defeat it." Then it's very extraordinary, is it not?
"Nowhere does anything ever arise." That
seems to be an impossible conclusion and bound to fail, no? If you have that kind of claim that nothing ever happens anywhere, in any way at all, then how can you expect to be taken seriously? and who would really begin,
who would really say this?
But that is what he does.
Then why/how is this?

So there are four versions of something being able to happen that he says,
regardless of which one of them we look at, it is the case that nowhere does anything ever arise along those lines. So for example, nowhere does anything ever arise from itself. Nowhere does anything ever arise from an other, or from something else. Nowhere does anything ever arise from both, itself or another. And nowhere does anything ever arise in a way that is uncaused.
So there's a tradition of elaborating a fair bit on this first verse,
And I think we should make that effort also, elaborating on it and coming quite.. as clear as we possibly can about what the thesis is, and what the justification for saying this may be.
And again it is very rewarding to begin by
thinking to oneself, or for oneself.
Is that which is under investigation here something
that is relevant to me? Meaning, is this something that I.. is what is investigated here something that I am a believer in? And what is, just like we said, am I a believer in, individuality in the sense of singularity of an individual, and of permanence of an individual, because who knows maybe it's it isn't the case. Maybe we don't have the particular beliefs that the author here is investigating and that doesn't make it uninteresting. If that's the case, it can still be a rewarding philosophical reading. But, of course, it's very different if What is the topic, Is something that I myself am all for; If it's a principle that I'm a hundred percent believer in, and then the treatise says "well, you know, sorry, but you are 100% wrong." That's a very different issue, no? Then if we are considering a particular philosophical view which is then under attack, a philosophical view that we don't have ourselves, therefore first of all, it's probably good to ask ourselves, do we basically.. these four alternatives that are presented in the beginning, they can be boiled down to two variations of something happening. They take as a given that something happens.
Something could happen by things being produced from themselves,
from other things, from both, or they could happen without any causal dependence. So actually to really notice whether we are.. whether The view that is under investigation here is one that we share, then we first of all have to ask ourselves: "Do I believe that something happens, or that things happen?" Because if I don't, you know, I mean it's a very... Let's say that that we had a version of saying that I don't believe that anything ever happens. Then, again, we could perhaps agree with the conclusion or, in any case, whatever may be, yeah, we could agree with the conclusion. And so there would be no need to, On a personal level, to go any further. So do I believe that things happen?
Is there any, what would you say about that?

Of course we do, yeah...

Of course we do.

So it's still probably good to try to think
"why do I think that something happens?"
It's not some doctrine that I have,
that I'm a believer in the in the happening of things. It seems to be such a basic rudimentary acknowledgement that it is beyond belief almost. It's just the world is like that. It's full of things that happen, no? And if there's ever such a thing as an obvious fact, then that that would be it.
And because that is the case, because it seems so obvious,
then that's why it sounds strange to ask "Do I believe this?" because precisely, obviously how could it be otherwise, who could possibly believe otherwise? It's possible to say something else, but really believe it? It's very, very difficult to even imagine what it would be like not to think I really believe nothing ever happens.
So.

In other words, it seems we are getting
at something very very fundamental about not just our beliefs, but also the world, when we investigate this.
But then if these four options are given.
The first three they are of a similar kind because they all three are variants of the idea that when things happen, then there's something that makes them happen.
There are certain things that have to be
in place for certain other things to occur. There are causes and conditions, whatever we may, whichever way we may want to identify those, that's a different issue. There are myriads of ways that this can be done, but here the basic idea is just that things aren't random. They happen for reasons, not necessarily for reasons, but because of certain things-- causes and conditions. Then the the fourth option is different. It says that actually there are no causes, things just happen. It may seem as if they happen because of something else, but really that's not the case. They just... It just happened the way they do, randomly, spontaneously..


We said that we believe that things happen.

Now we have seen two variants of
believing something about the way things happen. One, things happen in a way that is causally conditioned and another, not so-- Independent of causes and conditions. Would it be fair to say that if something happens, then it would have to be In either of those two ways? That either of those two further explanations about what it means for something to happen necessarily apply? Is that the case or not? That's also super important to ask myself. Because if there's a third option which is not considered here, then the whole... If all what we're going to do is to look at the four variants here, and they aren't fully exhaustive as for the nature of causation, then whether we can refute them or not as viable explanations of the fact that things happen, doesn't matter, because there's still further options that aren't considered. And alternatively, if we can come to the, to a very clear conclusion that if something happens it would have to be that either of these two scenarios apply, then whatever conclusion we get to about these four alternatives will be totally binding, no? Whatever we then conclude about. So if we fail, in other words, to find a place for the notion of arising, in terms of those four, that means that we have to give up the very idea of things happening. And we just said that that is an almost inconceivable stance to take. How could anyone believe that? And yet if we say that when things happen, either they happen because of something or not. And if we say that there's therefore no third option, and we cannot find any justification for either belief, then we are forced into that into that absurd conclusion.
Therefore what would we say?
What would be an example of arising which is not causal arising and which is not random?
Student: "Maybe it's the belief that things happen because of destiny or
or some kind of predestination because of a divine being." Uh-huh, but that would be a fine example of arising because of something. Things happen because of that divine being yeah. Then we can ask is that divine being and the thing that the divine being produces, Are those two identical? If we can say yes, they are, and that's how things arise then we have found That things arise from themselves. And if we say that no the divine being is different from the creation, then there would be a variant of the second option, that things arise from another. Or if we say that well, it's.., That's God and then there's the creation. And in some ways they're the same. There's this divine spark perhaps, you know, And at the same time they're different, because one is the creator and the other is the creation. Then there would be a variant of both.
But this is exactly the way
to think, like, ok there must be other.. It seems so simple,no? We're talking about the very idea of things happening, and then we say: Well, "you know, it actually just comes down to two options." It seems very sort of what to say aloof, and and sort of presumptuous to say that that the whole story about, in a way, you know a whole story about things happening can be captured in just two variants of arising. It seems very dry and well, whatever else we can say, you know, there's something that makes us suspicious, if someone speaks in this way. "Ok, do you believe something happens or not?" And we say "yes of course, we do, don't you?" Then the next thing that happens is that that person then says: "Well, if you have that belief then you are committed to one of only two positions." That will be sort of irritating, no? To get that sort of response.
But is it true or not? That's what we have to ask ourselves.
So if it's not true, then that means there has to be some way of expressing the idea of things happening which is not a causal account and which is not a statement of that things are random. So is such a thing possible? And now we just considered the divine creator principle, to see whether that would be an example of a third order arising. But then we sort of tersely said that "no, that would be an example of the first caused arising." Yeah, okay.
Student: "And what about awareness?"
Awareness?
So the question then would be: awareness,
is it something that arises? That happens? but the arising is not, the arising is not dependent on something, it just happens. Sorry, it's not dependent on... What am I trying to say? We will have to ask: awareness, is it sorry, awareness, is it the case that awareness does not arise because of certain things? It's not a dependent arising? And at the same time is not random. Yeah, so that's what we're considering now.
Could awareness be an instance of something that does indeed happen?
But when it happens neither is it the case that, that it is a causal phenomenon, nor is it the case that it just arises spontaneously?
Is there place for thinking of awareness
in some alternative fashion?
Student: "Sometimes awareness can be deluded
but it is always there."
So if it's always there, then it doesn't arise, yeah?
So then it's not what we are looking at here, we're talking about about things that happen. The strange thing is we could say, if awareness is always there,
then it doesn't happen. So we are talking about something that never happens.
Is that descriptive of awareness?
But anyway, we're looking at...we're looking at
the idea that things happen. And then we're trying to see.. so all the things that don't happen, we don't have to bother about here, whatever they may be. Like horns of a rabbit and so on. No, this is not what we are examining. We're examining those things that actually seem to take place. And then we are asking: is it always the case that when something happens, an event a thing that comes seemingly goes into existence, becomes an existent thing, when something that is born, arises, whatever we say, you know, is it the case that we can always, no matter what example of something emerging we may come up with, that it happens because of something? Or is it just a random occurrence that has nothing.. that is under no causal restriction at all?
Awareness, if it does indeed happen then,
I'm not sure how we would be able to see it as something that either just happens completely randomly, without any causal story at all, or something that is somehow like you say, it can be deluded or not, and then that is under the influence of things. And if it is something that participates in somehow causal relationships, then it's a dependent entity, which then falls under the first category.
Student: "So I mean, I guess I could say that
I don't believe that things happen, but I can't deny that I'm experiencing. You know, so I would have to say that I experience things, and I experience that things function in a certain way." Yeah, so I think that then at least your experience takes place, no? "Yeah." Student: "Yeah, I believe my experience. I don't believe that things happen." Okay, fine. Yeah, but your experience happens, if we can say that much then we are still, we are still as affected by the, we are still, We still subscribe to the basic view in exactly the same way, I think, fundamentally, whether we say that really the world is made of things that
go in and out of existence, or whether we say, as a
matter of fact, I don't believe there is a world, but I believe in my experience of the world, and that experience occurs, then we're still believers in the notion of things happening, of things taking place, the things are then just a different kind of thing. It's experiential events and entities that we're talking about. Student: "But I come into a problem because even if I don't believe my experience, my experience doesn't cease." Mm-hmm. Yeah, so there's tons of... Yeah, at this point, we're just asking whether we we share this basic orientation, and sort of core heartfelt belief that things, that things happen. And we're not saying anything more about whether it's justified or not. We just say: "Do I believe that things happen or not?" Student: "Are we just.. I mean...sorry... What is our like very specific definition of 'happening'? I'm still actually yeah... Is it that they arise or..?" It's whatever we put individually think of as happening. That's another interesting thing about this treatise, that there's usually no need for definitions from anywhere else than our than the ones that we always come with, that we come with, ourselves. There will be a number of philosophical principles introduced, but only to be... What to say? Yeah, there will be some Buddhist principles that will be introduced and then refuted, but in order to really get something,
get somewhere with the
progressive reasoning, what is by far most important is to think what do I mean by 'arising?'
Yeah, 'happening,' yeah, in this case
we've been talking about 'happening' and then if If I feel that yeah, there's things 'happen' and I would like to call that the 'arising' of things. That's how it comes across to me. Then that's fine. That's just my belief about things happening. I'm a believer in things taking place because they seem to arise. But basically, what we if nowhere does anything ever arise, we can we can read that too as simply saying, nowhere does anything ever happen.
Student: "I guess where I'm still at is I don't believe that what I'm experiencing is
intrinsically real. But my experience continues, so I can't help but... I can't even say believe but I'm experiencing it." So there okay, yeah, okay I get it. So I think, that's a very interesting point that you're making, which we will have certainly need to again and again consider, you know? The exact point that you're making that it may be possible to have a belief about the nature of things, that somehow seems to be contradicted by our experience, if I hear correctly. Like I may be convinced that actually nothing ever takes place, perhaps I'm a some believer in Madhyamika and so I 100% believe that Nāgārjuna is right when he says this. But it just doesn't fit with the way I see things, and the way I experience things. So that's totally thorough, entirely possible. And I think we can probably, as we go on with this, that sense of complete contradiction is very likely to come up. A complete contradiction between what we can notice under analysis and what seems to be the case. But what I would say then at this point is that we have to take our experience very seriously, our experience and our beliefs very seriously. So if part of us, so to speak, is still a believer in things happening, just because it seems so undeniable, then that has to be acknowledged. So when we are now asking ourselves these questions, right, then we have to look at the whole package of what we associate with ourselves: our beliefs, our scientific ideas, our religious ideas, our day-to-day thoughts and ideas, and our senses, whatever there may be..is there something anywhere in this great theater that somehow
makes me a subscriber to the notion that things happen?
And if there is some sort of drama taking place then indeed, yeah, I'm still one of those who believe that things happen. Does that make some sense? The key being analyzing really our own thoughts and beliefs.
Then I think you had also a question.

Student: "To me it seems that there are things that
that happen, meaning that they are not, not happening like a horn of a rabbit or, barren woman's son, but they are also, they're neither randomly happening nor depending on other things. I can't think of space, or Buddhahood, right? If I say Buddhahood, it clearly happens. I cannot say.. it does not belong to the same category as the barren woman's son, but then if I say Buddhahood, nor it certainly doesn't happen randomly, but if I say Buddahood happens because of a reason, or because of depending on something else, then it seems to be impermanent. Like if something happens based on something else, then or space right, it seems to be impermanent. So to me it seems there are some things that happen, but doesn't fall neither into these two categories." But why can we then say that Buddhahood happens, if it's not something that happens, because of something and it's not random either. Student: "Well, but how do you define 'happening?' Because if, yeah, therefore, if I say there is arising, then there must be ceasing, but I cannot say that for Buddhahood, so it seems." But maybe there is no Buddhahood then. Actually that is the kind of space of mind that can be very uncomfortable, no? Because we have a lot of hopes also. Let's acknowledge that. If we are practitioners of the Buddhist path and believe and have learned a lot from the Buddhist teachings, and so on, there are so many things that we find super relevant. And that it would be like the thought of having to say that this is just make-believe... It would be terrible, no? But that's nevertheless the kind of space of mind that we should enter when we get into this kind of investigation, yeah? We have to be willing to question absolutely anything, our most cherished beliefs, so that could be just the belief that I am here-- I love that thought and I can't live without it. But it could also be something much more profound than that, like the there must be awakening in the world and so on. But we have to be, we have to be completely fearless in terms of questioning our beliefs.
Because otherwise it won't be satisfying, right? Whatever we figure out
we know in our heart of hearts that there are certain things that we have relegated and chosen not to take under investigation and so okay, we spent some time but whatever we come to understand has only a limited application.
Yeah, there's just a little time.
Student: "Maybe it's similar to what was said from the person online, but I have this notion that of course every everything appears to be happening, things appear to be happening that's not an experience that I can deny. But if I investigate even for a moment, any one of those things that I perceive to be happening, then I agree very easily with this notion that any thing does not arise, right? Does not ever arise. Or no thing happens like there's no singular instant that's ever pinpointable, that is taking place. And so for me when I read this stanza, I'm thinking of 'happening,' that there is 'happening.' Not any 'thing' is happening, but that there is the experience of happening taking place, and that there seems to be some persistence underneath what's said here that could still be a possibility that could both be uncaused, I mean, sorry, that wouldn't be caused or random. Would just be." You are you thinking like in terms of the two truths, you know, is that what you mean? Student: "Maybe. I think I'm just trying to understand dependent origination from this perspective of constant flux, of no snapshot anything, no singular anything." But if yeah, okay.
If there is nevertheless a flux of something, that merits the term flux, then
that happens, right? That certainly happens. I think you also said that, yeah, if there is this flux then the flux happens, and flux is that completely random? Or is there something that makes certain fluctuating events take place, rather than others? Student: "I think the flux literally is 'happening,' meaning, they're the same thing." Fine, and then when this flux takes place, as it does, is there some sense that it is, that there are causes and conditions at play? Or that it's utterly random? "It seems the moment we..." Perhaps the very idea of flux implies not just complete chaos, no? Like is there a difference between talking about flux and utter chaos? Probably, yeah? Student: "One seems more of a judgment than the other. Chaos to me seems like a judgment of something happening, versus flux just being happening itself." Right, so
then we are asking is flux then a
candidate for this third category of not under the influence of conditions and causes, not explicable in terms... not explicable in terms of causes and conditions, and yet not something that just happens the way it does, independent of causes and conditions? Student: "Yes, yeah. I'm suggesting that." So let's try and think about that. We can all do that, try and think about that over the weekend. Why would it be that, what is your notion of flux, in other words? Try to sort of clarify that. Why is it that it's not... why is the flux not something that, why is it not fluctuating conditions that have an influence and on others? And why is it, while we cannot say that, why is it that the flux is not just utterly unpredictable and completely random? Yeah, I think we could all try to think of this that the notion of flux, which also has a history in in like Buddhist English. So is that something that is not affected by causes and conditions? Or is not somehow a framework of causes and conditions, and yet not a random flux? I don't know, in my mind random flux sounds like, like almost.. not a very easy concept to, not a very natural concept Yeah, did you have something to...?
Student: "Hey, hopefully it's helpful,
more sort of another way to state what I think. The previous comments have been pointing toward and what you're pointing toward is when we say something is happening, does that have to be an ontological claim? Do there have to be ontological stakes and reasons, right? And I think what I'm hearing some folks push against, is that it has to be on ontological, that there are no other alternatives. Thinking, you know, of what I consider to be less ontological, more phenomenological, accounts from you know the Madhyāntavibhāga, for example. Yeah, that's also a very, very rich perspective to begin to inquire into. At this point, I think we can also say that the phenomenological perspective, I succeeded in saying it relatively, the phenomenological perspective, if that is one that sees things happening, which it would be, then is the phenomenological perception of these things one that is in terms of, "well, if I look here, I see a white flower. If I look over here, I see something else." In other words, I should turn, if I tire of looking at the white flower I should turn my head over there. That would be like any phenomenological experience, which is within the framework of causes and conditions.
So, we can choose to conduct this analysis in terms of ontology,
but we can also say forget about, I will bracket all that ontological stuff and talk about what just seems to us! That's actually a very good point. That I have been trying to encourage, I suppose, when we say: "What do I mean? How do things come across to me? Rather than
particular claims about what
reality is. What is most important is what do I believe, how do I perceive. That's also a way of saying that the phenomenological perspective is very valuable here and perhaps, yeah, so thank you! Let's then for Monday, think about these questions, think about if someone asks the strange question: "Do things happen?" What would you answer? and then secondly, if you agree that, or if you say "yes things happen," then would you agree with this reduction into just two possible accounts of arising, of things happening? Namely that either there is really, or truly or perhaps just seemingly so, arising in in terms of causes and conditions? Or is it the case that, really or truly, nothing arises causally, or just seemingly things appear to be uncaused? That's what we have to inquire about. So to make sure to check whether we are, whether we are affected by the.. whether we are subscribers to the claims that are under analysis. Because the further course of events depends very much on whether we are, whether the beliefs that are being investigated are our own beliefs and perhaps our own core beliefs, or whether they are just ideas of others. Okay thank you very much and have a great weekend.
video
play-rounded-outline
17:24

Root of The Middle Way – Session 05

Dependent Origination and "Happening"
Teacher: 
Location: 
  • Rangjung Yeshe Institute - Nepal
Description >>

Session 5 delves into Buddhist teachings on dependent origination and existence. It starts with verses from “Root of the Middle Way,” emphasizing the illusory nature of conventional constructs. The discussion deepens with a focus on Nāgārjuna’s view that dependent objects neither truly arise nor cease, challenging our beliefs about reality. The notion of “happening” is explored and that beliefs about reality may conflict with personal experiences is highlighted . It also distinguishes between flux and chaos in understanding ‘happening’ and it discusses ontological and phenomenological perspectives, encouraging students to introspect on their beliefs and perceptions, setting the stage for their philosophical journey.

Video
Audio
play-rounded-outline
Good morning. So, on Friday we began looking at the first verse of the first chapter, which reads, "Not from itself, not from another, not from both, and not uncaused-- Nowhere does anything ever arise." [1.1] So, before we get further into that, let's read the homage once more. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, is not annihilated and is not permanent, does not come and does not go, is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha I bow down." And then we considered this very startling or bizarre claim that is made in the first verse. Nowhere does anything ever arise. Neither do things appear from themselves, nor from other things, nor from a combination of themselves and other things, and yet things are not uncaused either." And then, so it's a very bizarre and seemingly completely indefensible claim that is made, that nothing ever occurs anywhere, in any way at all. And in order to nevertheless consider it, despite the apparent nonsensical nature of the claim, then we said, "Okay, what are the assumptions that are made by making this statement?" Oh, no, not quite. How well does this statement fit with my beliefs? Is there some sort of, is there part of this that I can say, "Well, that part is something that I believe in." And then we said that the sense that something happens is something that we all agree, at least there was no one who said, "I don't believe that anything ever happens." Some said, "Maybe ultimately nothing happens," or, "I believe ultimately nothing happens," but that wouldn't mean that I don't feel or perceive or think in terms of things taking place. So as long as that's the case, then we already believers in things happening. It doesn't matter whether we then qualify it in some sense and say, "Not really happening," or, "It just seems to be that way." As long as it seems to be that way, that's good enough. We can't deny that seeming, or we wouldn't want to deny that. If someone wants to deny it, that's fine, then we can talk about that. It's more than fine if anyone would like to deny that.
So that was one simple piece of ground to cover.
It does indeed seem that things occur. It's hard to deny that, if not outright impossible to deny that.
So then we noticed that the way that lack of arising
is considered here is in terms of four alternatives. That things could perhaps arise from themselves, they could be caused by themselves, they could be caused by other things, they could be caused by both themselves and other things, or they could just be independent of causes. So in this way, the four alternatives come down to two alternatives, really, because things could have causes and they could also be uncaused. They could be just happening randomly, completely randomly, because if they're even a little bit not random, then there would still be some acknowledgement of causes and conditions. So there are two basic alternatives with respect to arising: caused and not caused. And then we spent some time considering whether that is a conclusive way of describing the apparent arising of things, or could there be an alternative? So I didn't make the jar yet with the names, but maybe one of you can explain what you think individually about this. Do things arise? Is that something you believe in or feel is true? Or what? And then secondly, do you think it is fair to say, in fact correct to say, that either this appearance has to be contingent on certain causes and conditions, or it has to be uncaused? And that those two basic alternatives capture all conceivable and inconceivable ways for things to arise. Anyone would like to explain what they think about that?
It's important that each one of us comes up with an
account in this way, of where we are at with the reasoning. In our own minds we have to have reached some point of conclusion. When we come to the next class, then we have to have, maybe we can say, "Okay, I'm not done with thinking about this," but then we need to know what it is that we are done with thinking about. That's the only way to guarantee that something really profound will come from the contemplation. If we do that, then it's guaranteed. But if we don't, then of course it's probably not going to be very profound. I mean it might be fun and cool and so on along the way, but it's not going to be anything like what they talk about in the texts. But if we do make that effort to notice what exactly do I believe at this point? what exactly is my reply to the question that the text brought up or that we together sort of extract from the text? Then there's no question that it will be amazing. It's just an amazing fact about this text. So we can… Vijay, please. Student: "Thomas, this is first time ever in my life that I'm taking a class in a monastery, so please excuse me for my ignorance. But what you said I found it so profound was that do the things really never happen or they seemingly happen, okay?" Or just simply do I believe that things happen or not? "I believe things seemingly happen. That is my experiential level understanding. My intellectual level understanding is that things really never happen, you know. But I don't give a damn for intellectual understanding of the things as long as they are not in my behavioural conduct, you know. So I'm in the middle, I'm in the confusion. My state is that I theoretically believe that things never happen. But on an experiencer level understanding, I believe that things seemingly happen, you know. So I would like you to set some light on it, on my confusion, you know." Yeah, well, I can try to think about it at my end now and in my…
In whichever way I can participate, yeah?
So thank you. I think this is again one of these issues that concern us all very much, you know. Certainly once we begin to study Buddhist philosophy or other forms of philosophy too, it could possibly make us arrive at this, who knows, maybe even some sort of, yeah. Variants of this sense could also come from some sort of scientific understanding where we perhaps say that, okay, things seem to me to be in one way but I understand or I believe that actually they have nothing to do, the way things are has nothing to do with what I see and believe that would be a variant of this kind of perception as well or this kind of belief as well, yeah. But then you say that my experience is more important, yeah? So then we have a choice, yeah, all the time to say what is more important, my experience or my understanding? And I think we probably shift, yeah, because we can't just go by experience and we can't just go by intellectual understanding. Of course what we think of as direct experience has a very sort of powerful and rich flavour but we still have to think about it, yeah? We can't just say, okay, it's so rich and so amazing so I don't need to think about it, I won't think about it. What goes on in my direct experience? We still have to make sense of it, I still have to think, okay, this was fantastic, now how do I get home? Or how can I get something to eat now? Stuff like that, those thoughts come up all the time, yeah, and there's no way of getting around those.
So the way we are equipped right now, I think it makes sense to
say that we need both experience and intellectual understanding. Of course we can't go by pure intellectual understanding. Intellectual understanding is based on our experience or at least informed by experience. So they probably develop in some sort of dependency on each other, experience and understanding. Then the very strange thing that can happen is when it may begin to seem to us that there's a huge conflict between what I feel and perceive and what I actually believe is true. And especially if we begin to study this kind of philosophy or Buddhist philosophy in general, like we talked about just the absence of a personal self in the beginning of these classes. And that too seems to be very counterintuitive, that there's no enduring single individual. And yet we could find quite easily after just a little bit of contemplation that there was no basis whatsoever for that belief. So that is a very strange situation to be in. And I think it's how do we work with that profound dilemma?.. or it's worse than a dilemma. This is something that we will be addressing continuously.
So since we can't do with just experience and since we
can't do with just intellectual understanding of things, now we are, and since we have the perception of things happening, it feels to us, it seems to us that things happen, now we would like to apply our intellect to that appearance and see, okay, it seems so overwhelmingly true that things happen, to the point that simply considering whether it might not be the case seems ridiculous, absurd. Nonetheless, now I will try to, if it is that clear experientially that things happen, then it should be possible also in some way to account for that rationally, that it happens and because of such and such, it must be possible to provide a somewhat okay account of why this seems so overwhelmingly to be the case. And that's what we're trying to get at now. We started out saying yes indeed, after having thought about it, we looked at our own experience and our own understanding of things. And then we recognized yes, it seems indeed to me that things arise. Now I want to see how so? Is that perception in accord with the way things actually are. I want to see how far I can get with this.
And in particular, because we hear here in the very first statement
that the author makes the claim that nothing arises anywhere, nothing at all, anywhere, in any way at all. So it seems to be even including the immediate perception of arising, that that is something he says it just doesn't occur. Otherwise, why would he say nowhere does anything ever arise? He's not saying except that it may seem to be the case, but no, there's no but in this. It's a just completely unqualified denial of arising, seemingly. So let's try and see what we can do with that.
And you were going to say something about…

Student: "Yeah, I think the gentleman already answered
the first thing how I would also perceive it. And yeah, I give a lot of credit to my direct perception basically, so therefore I'm more lenient to the sight of experience than to my intellectual understanding. But then I think…" It's interesting, just a comment here, it's interesting that people are different in this way. Like when people become philosophical about things, then they may go in that direction and say, "Experience is the most immediately accessible and directly meaningful." Or they may say, "But experience is so confused and unclear, so we need reason to figure out what really is going on." So it's the kind of choice we have. Like we can say, "I value this more," or "I value that more," but we can't just throw one out and keep the other. That's not an option. "Yeah, I think I do that because I work in psychiatry and I'm sort of a little bit afraid that I go cuckoo, you know, if I lose touch with the seeming reality. But still I'm not forgetting my intellectual understanding, but like little by little I try to test it maybe in my daily experience, to little by little bring it in. And the other question about cause and uncaused, yeah, I think there cannot be a third alternative. It is like, I think the German example is always a duck, you know, the bird. The bird is basically ducks and no ducks, non-ducks, you know. There's no third alternative because they're just conceptually contradictory. So therefore I think cause or uncaused or me or non-me's, yeah, there cannot be a third one." Okay, yeah, thank you.
Great, so that's an example of like having
a good clear sense of where I'm at, no? Like I try to understand, analyze and investigate the nature of reality, but what I find is, seems to be in quite some contrast with what I immediately perceive. And I can't just take that in and it's also not perhaps altogether clear to me what then things are, if they aren't what they seem. But I feel that, just adding a little bit, yeah, I don't know if this is descriptive of where you're coming from, no? But what you said is a very nice example of having thought, okay, so what is it like for me? Where am I at in terms of this? So as long as we keep that up, then definitely we will learn so much. So one can feel like that and therefore it's very important that I don't forget the way things come across and that gives a grounding that would be terrible to lose. And then the question, do things arise? If they arise, is it fair to say that either they have some causal dependence or they're just uncaused and that there's no third option? And then Anna said, yeah, that makes sense to me because it's like one is the negation of the other and what would the third option be? So that's one way of, in one's own mind, settling that question. Anybody else? One from online. Okay, sure. Thank you. Okay, Andy, can you speak? Student: "Yes, can you hear me?" Yeah. "Can you hear me?" Yes. "Yes?" Yeah, thank you. "Thank you. Well, first, I just wanted to say thank you to Thomas for teaching this. It's already been quite valuable and an incredible experience, so just thank you. And second, I just wanted to preface by saying I have studied a little bit of Madhyamaka for a few years, so I'm not totally naïve, which is maybe worth nothing at all, but I just want to mention that as well. It seems to me when I investigate my experience that I sort of believe things sort of happen. They sort of happen. If my younger brother gets sick with a bacterial infection and then I need to, I will want an antibiotic to get rid of this bacterial infection. I will not be too interested in hearing that things don't arise and there are no causes. I just want to have the antibiotic from the pharmacy to give to him. But at the same time, if I'm pressed to defend a specific account of how exactly this antibiotic will get rid of this bacterial infection or is it absolutely the case that only this will cause the end of this bacterial infection, then I won't. I won't be able to defend a specific account and I will not be willing to say that absolutely this is the only factor at play here. And likewise with whether things happen or not, in my day-to-day life I will act as if they do and I'll try to find a rough correlation between things happening and some sort of rough correlation between the efficacy that my actions seem to have. But again, if I'm sort of pressed at a verbal or intellectual level to defend an absolute account, then basically I won't. I won't be willing to. So that's kind of my personal results of my investigation or your request to investigate it over the weekend." Thank you. Yeah, that's great. And I think what we can notice then here is that you then have looked at your own beliefs and your own perceptions and found a very nice example of a situation where this claim would be utterly useless. That nowhere does anything ever arise. It seems to have nothing to do with the concrete situation which clearly calls for your attention. Your brother is sick and you need to get a medicine. All of that is causal thinking of course. So basically what you're saying is, and we don't have to say, "Okay, if I believe in causality, I have to know everything about causality. I need to know exactly what is the right story about how the medicine works." That's not necessary here at all. The only thing we need to notice is precisely what you noticed already, that there is an immediate justification for believing in causes and conditions, like in the example of medicine. That person needs medicine. Without it, he will continue to suffer. And if he gets the medicine, he may be cured right away. It's a perfect, classic example of causes and conditions. So in other words, what you have arrived at very clearly and conclusively is that you believe in causes and conditions, that they have a relevance to the extent that a claim of this kind becomes, you can just forget about it. There is a situation where clearly some cause is required and if we don't get that causal constellation in place, something bad will happen. So great, you're 100% with Nāgārjuna, so to speak. To put it in those terms, you say, "Okay, he's talking about things happening or not and he's talking about causes or not. I certainly believe things happen and I certainly believe that there are causes and conditions." Thank you.
Student: "Hi Thomas. Thank you for teaching these lectures. So I
have a question to you actually regarding what we've just been talking about. So you said at the beginning of the class that it's very important for us to reflect on our own experiences, what we believe in, and kind of reflect on the teachings of Nāgārjuna. And people have been sharing what they believe and their experiences. But my problem is I've basically come to the conclusion that my experience is very deluded. So experientially I think I'm deluded and intellectually I believe that I don't really know anything about the reality of things. And because of this, I don't really have a basis for me to kind of critically engage with this. I'm basically taking whatever Nāgārjuna says as right because I think experientially he's not as deluded as I am. Intellectually he's done a lot of thinking and research. So this way I'm kind of just taking whatever he says as the commandment. But you said it's important for us to reflect. So I don't know in this way how should I engage with the teachings?" Right, thank you. That's also something we can all relate to too. And we talked about that a little bit before also. Like how could I really know and have an informed opinion about this? Especially..
Even if we have just gone to school and learned about the things that we learn about in school,
if we stay for several years, then we learn something about science and related topics that typically tell us that things are in ways that seem very different from what they seem. As soon as we go a little bit beyond the surface in physics, chemistry and what have you, biology or the whole range of science actually, then we find something that seems very different from what things seem to be. So how can I really, if we're talking about what reality is, how could I know that? It's a very natural hesitation or doubt to have.
So I think there are two things I would like to say about that.
And one is, we talked about also in the beginning that there are two approaches to coming to understand the nature of reality. And one is the scholarly approach of learning and reflecting, resolving the view with the help of scripture and critical analysis. That is one classic highway. And then it's also possible, that process is comprehensive
and requires a lot of commitment, stamina to go through with.
Typically in the monastic colleges, people spend their entire waking life immersed in scholarship, in learning, reflecting and meditating on what they learn. Getting up very early in the morning, going to bed quite late, and very little of the day is really spent in any other way. There are some breaks and meal times, but if you stay in that sort of institution, it's a very high powered environment to be in.
But it's also possible to be in a position to make an
almost shortcut where this actually isn't necessary.
That is another classic approach which has been
transmitted and instantiated numerous times. Many, many instances of great awakening taking place on a different path. That requires an experienced and realized teacher, and then a disciple who can connect with that type of wisdom teacher. And how can a disciple connect in that way? They say it requires 100% openness and no doubt whatsoever about the teacher and the teaching, so that you're just completely ready to take in. So that's an extremely vulnerable situation to be in. If you meet the wrong teacher, then you're done. And if you believe in reincarnation, you're done now and probably for a very long time. So it's a very, very risky space to be in. But on the other hand, if you meet an authentic teacher, then these things can happen. So again, we can try and look at ourselves and say, "Okay, I understand that there's such a thing that must be possible, that it must be possible to be introduced directly to the nature of awakened mind, whichever way we might want to phrase that. That it's possible to arrive at genuine insight without much analysis at all through some skillful interface and some extraordinary connection. But am I that kind of person who has complete, not a shadow of a doubt about this teaching being, this teacher and this teaching being able to show me reality just as it is or not? And probably many of us will feel that, "Okay, I sure believe and it's a wonderful person and those teachings are amazing. I love them. Actually, I've spent quite a few years trying to understand and practice these teachings. I try to follow my teacher and so on. That's all good, wonderful and excellent, if it is a good teacher, of course. As long as it's at least an okay teacher, then that is all great and wholesome teaching. But if we don't have that complete readiness to just receive and apply, that's also what we talked about in the beginning, that the instructions that are then given are not meant for analysis or just for us to wonder about. They're meant to be applied. And as long as we keep thinking about the instruction, we don't apply the instruction.
Am I that kind of person who is beyond wondering
about the instruction and just applying or not? And I think many of us will feel that I'm not that doubt-free and that the only concern is realizing the nature of reality. Nothing else has any relevance at all. Like they say, like a starving person who has gone without food for many, many days. He or she doesn't go around wondering about many things, but only one thing matters. So are we that kind of person? And do we then have no doubt about what it is exactly that we need? Perhaps we are, but perhaps we are not. And I think especially in the common, in our time, it's probably quite likely that we aren't, because we have been taught from as long as we can remember that we have to be careful and quite skeptical and examine things well. There are good reasons for that, but it has become like our second nature. So it's very, very difficult to go about things in another way. So that was just the one thing I wanted to say. Sorry for being so, going on in such a long way. But the second thing is then that we can then connect with the scholarly approach in a profound way by studying a treatise like this one, "The Root of the Middle Way."n We don't have to necessarily spend a decade or two or three as scholars and becoming scholars, resolving the view through learning and reflection and meditation with the help of scripture and reasoning. We can spend much shorter time, as long as it's done sincerely and carefully and from the heart, then we can resolve a whole lot by just studying a treatise like this. But for us to be able to do that, then we have to take ourselves seriously. We have to say to ourselves, "Okay, to be honest, I don't feel very smart, intelligent, in terms of being able to know the nature of reality. Who could? Perhaps we feel that who could possibly know the nature of reality? Certainly not me, and to be frank, I don't think anyone actually can." That's perfectly possible that we think like that. But to benefit from the contemplation here, we have to go about it differently. We have to forget that attitude as we contemplate. And why? Again, it's just a practical matter. If we keep thinking like that, then that will be all that we ever think. Because I can't fully understand that no matter what we come to think, no matter what kind of seeming understanding we have, it won't matter that much to us. Because there's always that doubt. So that's something that we can again, something let's keep coming back to this again and again, see how it works to give oneself the guts and the pride to say, "I can understand this, why not?" And then as we go through with the investigation, what happens to that sense of not being qualified? I would like us all to remember that. Right now we probably all have that sense that I'm not really equipped to say conclusively something about the nature of reality. It may be in one way, it may be in another, and it may be in an altogether different way. Right now we probably all have that sense too, to some extent, but what happens as we keep learning and reflecting here to that sense? That sense of not being qualified. In any case, at the very beginning and throughout, it's very important that as we ponder these issues, we don't stray into that sort of thinking because it takes the whole energy out of the contemplation.
And like you said something about experience and the
value of immediate experience, Vijay said so too, that there is something about experience that is just overwhelmingly real to us. So if it is that sense of something that is undeniable, it's also something that we have. And if we have that, then in a sense that's all what we need to examine here. We don't need to come up with a theory about how things actually are, we just need to look at our own perception of things. So that's an important difference. We're not asked to account for the nature of reality. We're just asked to account for what seems to be the case for me. And for example, that things happen. We don't feel unqualified to have an opinion about that, no? I think we all feel pretty qualified, no? The question, does it seem to me that things happen? I would be pressed to say, I would find it hard to say, "I don't know." So there are ways of getting at this problem.
So that was a very long answer, but
it's a very important point that you make. So I hope it was somewhat helpful.
Student: "I think it is absolutely necessary for us
to understand the difference between, are we talking in the realms of appearing level truth in this class or relative level truth or the absolute level truth? If we mix or if we cross the lines of each other, then we will be falling into a never-ending pit trap. My only observation was that, which language am I talking in? German, French or English? So, one day Rinpoche said that it is absolutely important for you to understand the currency in circulation. There are appearing level truths. I somehow seemingly see you in a person and you in that camera. Thomas there, Thomas in that viewfinder of that camera, which Thomas is real? So I just wanted to make a wish also." I think it's okay. "Thank you for enlightening us." It's good to spend time on these issues at the beginning and they will come up also as we go on. Because as we talked about before, the practical dimension to this is crucial. Even if we adjust after philosophical knowledge, we need to know how to approach this text. Otherwise, it's very limited or relatively speaking very limited what we can get from it. So that's another sort of classic response. Are we talking about seeming reality or ultimate reality? At this point, I don't think we need to make a distinction. If there is an appearance, a seeming reality, that's good enough. That is what we, it is that seeming perception that we then are concerned with. And we can bracket what the nature of ultimate reality may be. So, in other words, we have all asked ourselves, is it the case that when someone says things happen and this is a world of events, things take place, that I will say "yes, of course." And we have said, "yeah, obviously. This is undeniable. I can't deny that there seems to be a world where things happen. And I'm in the middle of that world together with so many others. Undeniable." And yet then we have seen that this text begins by just saying sort of blanket denial of that. It says nowhere does anything ever arise. And if we look at the commentaries, then it says in any way at all. So, it's a complete denial of arising. So we have noticed both that we have a sense of belief in things occurring and that the text denies that 100%, says that you're wrong. Then we have also looked at the question of whether if things happen in the way that we say they do, whether it makes sense to say that in that case, either they happen because of certain things and not just randomly, or they happen randomly, they have no causes. And that there are just those two options. Now we will begin to look at the first option. If things happen and we say that they happen because of causes and conditions, then does it make sense? No, let's wait with that. Then about things arising from causes, there are three alternatives presented here. Things could arise from themselves, meaning it could be that
when a seed transforms and becomes a sprout, that it's just an appearance.
And in fact, the nature of the seed and the nature of the sprout are completely indistinguishable. It's the very same thing, so to speak. That would be one possibility, right? If we have accepted that there are causes and conditions that make things happen, once those causes and conditions are not there, then those things will not happen. When we have said that much, then we could say about those causes and conditions and the things that are produced, that they are actually the same. Or alternatively, we could say that they are not. A seed is a seed, a sprout is a sprout. They are different things. So cause and effect are not identical. So we have two opposites, right? The cause and effect are the same, cause and effect are different. So that again seems to divide the world in two, there are just those two options. So that seems very reductionist, but it also perhaps makes good sense to do so. Let us try to consider that, yeah? There is a third option, which would be a combination. That part of the sprout and part of the seed, part of the effect and part of the cause are the same, but not everything. There are also certain things that are different. The shape and the form of the sprout is different from the shape and the form of the seed. But maybe, who knows what, some DNA in the seed is the same in the sprout. So that would be an example of both, yeah? Does it make sense to say that if there are causes and conditions that make things arise, that are responsible for the arising of things, who knows what they are? We are not talking about the details of this at all. But does it make sense to say that if that is the case, then three options are available and only three: Cause and effect could be one and the same. Cause and effect could be different from each other. Or there could be some combination, which is the case, such that some things about the cause are the very same in the case of the effect, and yet some things that are the case about the cause are different with respect to the effect. So again, at home, try to think whether that is thoroughly conclusive to say that there are only these three options. Of course, there are myriads of things that we can say about causes and conditions and effects, which are not captured by these three options. But whatever it is that we want to say about cause and effect, it will have to be something that finds its place within this framework of either sameness of cause and effect, difference of cause and effect, or a combination. So it's important again that we investigate whether there might be a fourth way for causes and conditions to produce effects, meaning without cause and effect being the same, without them being different, and without them being both same and different. Because if there is, then the whole working of the reasoning below will not be conclusive. Because what we will be considering after this are those three options. If in fact there is a way for causes and conditions to produce effects which is not in terms of identity of cause and effect, not in terms of difference of cause and effect, and not in terms of their combination, then whatever we may, if we fail to find any justification for those three options, then we can still go about being believers in cause and effect in true and real causality, because there is that fourth option which remains without any damage. So it's important that we investigate whether there is such a fourth option possible. So please think about that at home until tomorrow. And like these people did today, prepare a little speech. It doesn't have to be a long speech at all, no, but like where did I get to about this question? and why did I reach the conclusion? or why did I stop at the point I stopped? We can begin to consider the first option.
It may be the case that there are causes
and effects, as indeed it seems to us, no? This is our immediate perception, we have said. And it may also be the case that we can say about those causes and effects that they seem to be different, because the appearance of difference of cause and effect is also quite undeniable, no? The seed sure looks different than the sprout. That's why we say one is the cause of the other, no? If it was just the seed and the seed, or the sprout and the sprout, then we wouldn't call it cause and effect, no? So there is a seeming difference, but it could also be the case that that's just a misperception, or something that only seems to us, but in fact there is no difference. There are philosophical systems like that, and in terms of classic Indian thought, the Sāṃkhya school had this notion of the prakṛti principle, which is transformative, and so things seem to go in and out of existence in the world, the world that I as the aware being, the puruṣa, perceive, those things seem to go in and out of existence. But in fact it's all an illusion, and what is there, the prakṛti, is always just that. It just takes on different forms. So there are many variants of this belief, no? Not just in India, but elsewhere too. And also in science, monist ideas in the philosophy of science would be of this kind perhaps, no? So that seems thoroughly possible, once we become a little philosophical about it, no?

So yeah, in... Oh, there's very little time.

This then takes us back to what we were talking about before, actually, you know, about valuing our immediate perception of things, yeah? b Because if there's no question that seed and sprout appear different, and in that sense there's no question that seed and sprout are different, right? Like if you tell me go and find a sprout in the garden and go and find a seed, I won't confuse those two, no? So if... Then we may want to say something about the nature of cause and effect, but that's not really what we are... That's not enough to say that therefore cause and effect are entirely different, are entirely the same, yeah? We may have a philosophical point of view about this, but the whole story of cause and effect cannot be told by saying that cause and effect are the same, because they sure don't seem like that, yeah? So all the causes and effects that I meet in the world, I meet because they are not the same, yeah? So I may have something to say about why they are... I may have something to say about how they are ultimately not different from each other, but that doesn't make it possible for me to deny that causes and effects are not identical in the way that they are encountered.
So in other words, if I want to say that cause and effect are the same,
because yes, I know they look different, but really they are the same, then my account is not just identity, it's a sense of the third alternative, both, yeah? Because I will have to acknowledge that cause and effect, just even as I speak these words, they are two different words, no? They are two different concepts, and all the instances of cause and effect that I meet in the world, by virtue of being instances of cause and effect, stand out as different from each other. So I may have a story to tell about ultimate identity,
and if I do, then I belong to the group of people
who believe in the third alternative, not the first.

and again prepare a few lines to explain what you get from that. There are three alternatives about cause and effect: Cause and effect could be identical, they could be different from each other, or they could be same but also different. Then we considered a philosophical stance that says apparently cause and effect are different, but wait, it is just an appearance, it is just an illusion, in fact they are one and the same. Then I was saying now that that is actually not a story about identity, but it is a story about a combination of identity and difference. So this does not qualify as cause and effect being truly the same. Is this correct or not? Or are we forgetting something? Whenever you feel that there is something that seems somewhat awkward or a bit forced, then that is the sign that you should slow down and focus on that. Whenever it seems that something that I say or that the text says, or that seems to be a little okay, maybe, but... when you get that feeling often that you cannot put your finger on it, but there is just something that sounds somewhat odd, that is the time to then really zoom in on that. Okay, thank you very much and see you tomorrow.
Good morning. So, on Friday we began looking at the first verse of the first chapter, which reads, "Not from itself, not from another, not from both, and not uncaused-- Nowhere does anything ever arise." [1.1] So, before we get further into that, let's read the homage once more. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, is not annihilated and is not permanent, does not come and does not go, is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha I bow down." And then we considered this very startling or bizarre claim that is made in the first verse. Nowhere does anything ever arise. Neither do things appear from themselves, nor from other things, nor from a combination of themselves and other things, and yet things are not uncaused either." And then, so it's a very bizarre and seemingly completely indefensible claim that is made, that nothing ever occurs anywhere, in any way at all. And in order to nevertheless consider it, despite the apparent nonsensical nature of the claim, then we said, "Okay, what are the assumptions that are made by making this statement?" Oh, no, not quite. How well does this statement fit with my beliefs? Is there some sort of, is there part of this that I can say, "Well, that part is something that I believe in." And then we said that the sense that something happens is something that we all agree, at least there was no one who said, "I don't believe that anything ever happens." Some said, "Maybe ultimately nothing happens," or, "I believe ultimately nothing happens," but that wouldn't mean that I don't feel or perceive or think in terms of things taking place. So as long as that's the case, then we already believers in things happening. It doesn't matter whether we then qualify it in some sense and say, "Not really happening," or, "It just seems to be that way." As long as it seems to be that way, that's good enough. We can't deny that seeming, or we wouldn't want to deny that. If someone wants to deny it, that's fine, then we can talk about that. It's more than fine if anyone would like to deny that.
So that was one simple piece of ground to cover.
It does indeed seem that things occur. It's hard to deny that, if not outright impossible to deny that.
So then we noticed that the way that lack of arising
is considered here is in terms of four alternatives. That things could perhaps arise from themselves, they could be caused by themselves, they could be caused by other things, they could be caused by both themselves and other things, or they could just be independent of causes. So in this way, the four alternatives come down to two alternatives, really, because things could have causes and they could also be uncaused. They could be just happening randomly, completely randomly, because if they're even a little bit not random, then there would still be some acknowledgement of causes and conditions. So there are two basic alternatives with respect to arising: caused and not caused. And then we spent some time considering whether that is a conclusive way of describing the apparent arising of things, or could there be an alternative? So I didn't make the jar yet with the names, but maybe one of you can explain what you think individually about this. Do things arise? Is that something you believe in or feel is true? Or what? And then secondly, do you think it is fair to say, in fact correct to say, that either this appearance has to be contingent on certain causes and conditions, or it has to be uncaused? And that those two basic alternatives capture all conceivable and inconceivable ways for things to arise. Anyone would like to explain what they think about that?
It's important that each one of us comes up with an
account in this way, of where we are at with the reasoning. In our own minds we have to have reached some point of conclusion. When we come to the next class, then we have to have, maybe we can say, "Okay, I'm not done with thinking about this," but then we need to know what it is that we are done with thinking about. That's the only way to guarantee that something really profound will come from the contemplation. If we do that, then it's guaranteed. But if we don't, then of course it's probably not going to be very profound. I mean it might be fun and cool and so on along the way, but it's not going to be anything like what they talk about in the texts. But if we do make that effort to notice what exactly do I believe at this point? what exactly is my reply to the question that the text brought up or that we together sort of extract from the text? Then there's no question that it will be amazing. It's just an amazing fact about this text. So we can… Vijay, please. Student: "Thomas, this is first time ever in my life that I'm taking a class in a monastery, so please excuse me for my ignorance. But what you said I found it so profound was that do the things really never happen or they seemingly happen, okay?" Or just simply do I believe that things happen or not? "I believe things seemingly happen. That is my experiential level understanding. My intellectual level understanding is that things really never happen, you know. But I don't give a damn for intellectual understanding of the things as long as they are not in my behavioural conduct, you know. So I'm in the middle, I'm in the confusion. My state is that I theoretically believe that things never happen. But on an experiencer level understanding, I believe that things seemingly happen, you know. So I would like you to set some light on it, on my confusion, you know." Yeah, well, I can try to think about it at my end now and in my…
In whichever way I can participate, yeah?
So thank you. I think this is again one of these issues that concern us all very much, you know. Certainly once we begin to study Buddhist philosophy or other forms of philosophy too, it could possibly make us arrive at this, who knows, maybe even some sort of, yeah. Variants of this sense could also come from some sort of scientific understanding where we perhaps say that, okay, things seem to me to be in one way but I understand or I believe that actually they have nothing to do, the way things are has nothing to do with what I see and believe that would be a variant of this kind of perception as well or this kind of belief as well, yeah. But then you say that my experience is more important, yeah? So then we have a choice, yeah, all the time to say what is more important, my experience or my understanding? And I think we probably shift, yeah, because we can't just go by experience and we can't just go by intellectual understanding. Of course what we think of as direct experience has a very sort of powerful and rich flavour but we still have to think about it, yeah? We can't just say, okay, it's so rich and so amazing so I don't need to think about it, I won't think about it. What goes on in my direct experience? We still have to make sense of it, I still have to think, okay, this was fantastic, now how do I get home? Or how can I get something to eat now? Stuff like that, those thoughts come up all the time, yeah, and there's no way of getting around those.
So the way we are equipped right now, I think it makes sense to
say that we need both experience and intellectual understanding. Of course we can't go by pure intellectual understanding. Intellectual understanding is based on our experience or at least informed by experience. So they probably develop in some sort of dependency on each other, experience and understanding. Then the very strange thing that can happen is when it may begin to seem to us that there's a huge conflict between what I feel and perceive and what I actually believe is true. And especially if we begin to study this kind of philosophy or Buddhist philosophy in general, like we talked about just the absence of a personal self in the beginning of these classes. And that too seems to be very counterintuitive, that there's no enduring single individual. And yet we could find quite easily after just a little bit of contemplation that there was no basis whatsoever for that belief. So that is a very strange situation to be in. And I think it's how do we work with that profound dilemma?.. or it's worse than a dilemma. This is something that we will be addressing continuously.
So since we can't do with just experience and since we
can't do with just intellectual understanding of things, now we are, and since we have the perception of things happening, it feels to us, it seems to us that things happen, now we would like to apply our intellect to that appearance and see, okay, it seems so overwhelmingly true that things happen, to the point that simply considering whether it might not be the case seems ridiculous, absurd. Nonetheless, now I will try to, if it is that clear experientially that things happen, then it should be possible also in some way to account for that rationally, that it happens and because of such and such, it must be possible to provide a somewhat okay account of why this seems so overwhelmingly to be the case. And that's what we're trying to get at now. We started out saying yes indeed, after having thought about it, we looked at our own experience and our own understanding of things. And then we recognized yes, it seems indeed to me that things arise. Now I want to see how so? Is that perception in accord with the way things actually are. I want to see how far I can get with this.
And in particular, because we hear here in the very first statement
that the author makes the claim that nothing arises anywhere, nothing at all, anywhere, in any way at all. So it seems to be even including the immediate perception of arising, that that is something he says it just doesn't occur. Otherwise, why would he say nowhere does anything ever arise? He's not saying except that it may seem to be the case, but no, there's no but in this. It's a just completely unqualified denial of arising, seemingly. So let's try and see what we can do with that.
And you were going to say something about…

Student: "Yeah, I think the gentleman already answered
the first thing how I would also perceive it. And yeah, I give a lot of credit to my direct perception basically, so therefore I'm more lenient to the sight of experience than to my intellectual understanding. But then I think…" It's interesting, just a comment here, it's interesting that people are different in this way. Like when people become philosophical about things, then they may go in that direction and say, "Experience is the most immediately accessible and directly meaningful." Or they may say, "But experience is so confused and unclear, so we need reason to figure out what really is going on." So it's the kind of choice we have. Like we can say, "I value this more," or "I value that more," but we can't just throw one out and keep the other. That's not an option. "Yeah, I think I do that because I work in psychiatry and I'm sort of a little bit afraid that I go cuckoo, you know, if I lose touch with the seeming reality. But still I'm not forgetting my intellectual understanding, but like little by little I try to test it maybe in my daily experience, to little by little bring it in. And the other question about cause and uncaused, yeah, I think there cannot be a third alternative. It is like, I think the German example is always a duck, you know, the bird. The bird is basically ducks and no ducks, non-ducks, you know. There's no third alternative because they're just conceptually contradictory. So therefore I think cause or uncaused or me or non-me's, yeah, there cannot be a third one." Okay, yeah, thank you.
Great, so that's an example of like having
a good clear sense of where I'm at, no? Like I try to understand, analyze and investigate the nature of reality, but what I find is, seems to be in quite some contrast with what I immediately perceive. And I can't just take that in and it's also not perhaps altogether clear to me what then things are, if they aren't what they seem. But I feel that, just adding a little bit, yeah, I don't know if this is descriptive of where you're coming from, no? But what you said is a very nice example of having thought, okay, so what is it like for me? Where am I at in terms of this? So as long as we keep that up, then definitely we will learn so much. So one can feel like that and therefore it's very important that I don't forget the way things come across and that gives a grounding that would be terrible to lose. And then the question, do things arise? If they arise, is it fair to say that either they have some causal dependence or they're just uncaused and that there's no third option? And then Anna said, yeah, that makes sense to me because it's like one is the negation of the other and what would the third option be? So that's one way of, in one's own mind, settling that question. Anybody else? One from online. Okay, sure. Thank you. Okay, Andy, can you speak? Student: "Yes, can you hear me?" Yeah. "Can you hear me?" Yes. "Yes?" Yeah, thank you. "Thank you. Well, first, I just wanted to say thank you to Thomas for teaching this. It's already been quite valuable and an incredible experience, so just thank you. And second, I just wanted to preface by saying I have studied a little bit of Madhyamaka for a few years, so I'm not totally naïve, which is maybe worth nothing at all, but I just want to mention that as well. It seems to me when I investigate my experience that I sort of believe things sort of happen. They sort of happen. If my younger brother gets sick with a bacterial infection and then I need to, I will want an antibiotic to get rid of this bacterial infection. I will not be too interested in hearing that things don't arise and there are no causes. I just want to have the antibiotic from the pharmacy to give to him. But at the same time, if I'm pressed to defend a specific account of how exactly this antibiotic will get rid of this bacterial infection or is it absolutely the case that only this will cause the end of this bacterial infection, then I won't. I won't be able to defend a specific account and I will not be willing to say that absolutely this is the only factor at play here. And likewise with whether things happen or not, in my day-to-day life I will act as if they do and I'll try to find a rough correlation between things happening and some sort of rough correlation between the efficacy that my actions seem to have. But again, if I'm sort of pressed at a verbal or intellectual level to defend an absolute account, then basically I won't. I won't be willing to. So that's kind of my personal results of my investigation or your request to investigate it over the weekend." Thank you. Yeah, that's great. And I think what we can notice then here is that you then have looked at your own beliefs and your own perceptions and found a very nice example of a situation where this claim would be utterly useless. That nowhere does anything ever arise. It seems to have nothing to do with the concrete situation which clearly calls for your attention. Your brother is sick and you need to get a medicine. All of that is causal thinking of course. So basically what you're saying is, and we don't have to say, "Okay, if I believe in causality, I have to know everything about causality. I need to know exactly what is the right story about how the medicine works." That's not necessary here at all. The only thing we need to notice is precisely what you noticed already, that there is an immediate justification for believing in causes and conditions, like in the example of medicine. That person needs medicine. Without it, he will continue to suffer. And if he gets the medicine, he may be cured right away. It's a perfect, classic example of causes and conditions. So in other words, what you have arrived at very clearly and conclusively is that you believe in causes and conditions, that they have a relevance to the extent that a claim of this kind becomes, you can just forget about it. There is a situation where clearly some cause is required and if we don't get that causal constellation in place, something bad will happen. So great, you're 100% with Nāgārjuna, so to speak. To put it in those terms, you say, "Okay, he's talking about things happening or not and he's talking about causes or not. I certainly believe things happen and I certainly believe that there are causes and conditions." Thank you.
Student: "Hi Thomas. Thank you for teaching these lectures. So I
have a question to you actually regarding what we've just been talking about. So you said at the beginning of the class that it's very important for us to reflect on our own experiences, what we believe in, and kind of reflect on the teachings of Nāgārjuna. And people have been sharing what they believe and their experiences. But my problem is I've basically come to the conclusion that my experience is very deluded. So experientially I think I'm deluded and intellectually I believe that I don't really know anything about the reality of things. And because of this, I don't really have a basis for me to kind of critically engage with this. I'm basically taking whatever Nāgārjuna says as right because I think experientially he's not as deluded as I am. Intellectually he's done a lot of thinking and research. So this way I'm kind of just taking whatever he says as the commandment. But you said it's important for us to reflect. So I don't know in this way how should I engage with the teachings?" Right, thank you. That's also something we can all relate to too. And we talked about that a little bit before also. Like how could I really know and have an informed opinion about this? Especially..
Even if we have just gone to school and learned about the things that we learn about in school,
if we stay for several years, then we learn something about science and related topics that typically tell us that things are in ways that seem very different from what they seem. As soon as we go a little bit beyond the surface in physics, chemistry and what have you, biology or the whole range of science actually, then we find something that seems very different from what things seem to be. So how can I really, if we're talking about what reality is, how could I know that? It's a very natural hesitation or doubt to have.
So I think there are two things I would like to say about that.
And one is, we talked about also in the beginning that there are two approaches to coming to understand the nature of reality. And one is the scholarly approach of learning and reflecting, resolving the view with the help of scripture and critical analysis. That is one classic highway. And then it's also possible, that process is comprehensive
and requires a lot of commitment, stamina to go through with.
Typically in the monastic colleges, people spend their entire waking life immersed in scholarship, in learning, reflecting and meditating on what they learn. Getting up very early in the morning, going to bed quite late, and very little of the day is really spent in any other way. There are some breaks and meal times, but if you stay in that sort of institution, it's a very high powered environment to be in.
But it's also possible to be in a position to make an
almost shortcut where this actually isn't necessary.
That is another classic approach which has been
transmitted and instantiated numerous times. Many, many instances of great awakening taking place on a different path. That requires an experienced and realized teacher, and then a disciple who can connect with that type of wisdom teacher. And how can a disciple connect in that way? They say it requires 100% openness and no doubt whatsoever about the teacher and the teaching, so that you're just completely ready to take in. So that's an extremely vulnerable situation to be in. If you meet the wrong teacher, then you're done. And if you believe in reincarnation, you're done now and probably for a very long time. So it's a very, very risky space to be in. But on the other hand, if you meet an authentic teacher, then these things can happen. So again, we can try and look at ourselves and say, "Okay, I understand that there's such a thing that must be possible, that it must be possible to be introduced directly to the nature of awakened mind, whichever way we might want to phrase that. That it's possible to arrive at genuine insight without much analysis at all through some skillful interface and some extraordinary connection. But am I that kind of person who has complete, not a shadow of a doubt about this teaching being, this teacher and this teaching being able to show me reality just as it is or not? And probably many of us will feel that, "Okay, I sure believe and it's a wonderful person and those teachings are amazing. I love them. Actually, I've spent quite a few years trying to understand and practice these teachings. I try to follow my teacher and so on. That's all good, wonderful and excellent, if it is a good teacher, of course. As long as it's at least an okay teacher, then that is all great and wholesome teaching. But if we don't have that complete readiness to just receive and apply, that's also what we talked about in the beginning, that the instructions that are then given are not meant for analysis or just for us to wonder about. They're meant to be applied. And as long as we keep thinking about the instruction, we don't apply the instruction.
Am I that kind of person who is beyond wondering
about the instruction and just applying or not? And I think many of us will feel that I'm not that doubt-free and that the only concern is realizing the nature of reality. Nothing else has any relevance at all. Like they say, like a starving person who has gone without food for many, many days. He or she doesn't go around wondering about many things, but only one thing matters. So are we that kind of person? And do we then have no doubt about what it is exactly that we need? Perhaps we are, but perhaps we are not. And I think especially in the common, in our time, it's probably quite likely that we aren't, because we have been taught from as long as we can remember that we have to be careful and quite skeptical and examine things well. There are good reasons for that, but it has become like our second nature. So it's very, very difficult to go about things in another way. So that was just the one thing I wanted to say. Sorry for being so, going on in such a long way. But the second thing is then that we can then connect with the scholarly approach in a profound way by studying a treatise like this one, "The Root of the Middle Way."n We don't have to necessarily spend a decade or two or three as scholars and becoming scholars, resolving the view through learning and reflection and meditation with the help of scripture and reasoning. We can spend much shorter time, as long as it's done sincerely and carefully and from the heart, then we can resolve a whole lot by just studying a treatise like this. But for us to be able to do that, then we have to take ourselves seriously. We have to say to ourselves, "Okay, to be honest, I don't feel very smart, intelligent, in terms of being able to know the nature of reality. Who could? Perhaps we feel that who could possibly know the nature of reality? Certainly not me, and to be frank, I don't think anyone actually can." That's perfectly possible that we think like that. But to benefit from the contemplation here, we have to go about it differently. We have to forget that attitude as we contemplate. And why? Again, it's just a practical matter. If we keep thinking like that, then that will be all that we ever think. Because I can't fully understand that no matter what we come to think, no matter what kind of seeming understanding we have, it won't matter that much to us. Because there's always that doubt. So that's something that we can again, something let's keep coming back to this again and again, see how it works to give oneself the guts and the pride to say, "I can understand this, why not?" And then as we go through with the investigation, what happens to that sense of not being qualified? I would like us all to remember that. Right now we probably all have that sense that I'm not really equipped to say conclusively something about the nature of reality. It may be in one way, it may be in another, and it may be in an altogether different way. Right now we probably all have that sense too, to some extent, but what happens as we keep learning and reflecting here to that sense? That sense of not being qualified. In any case, at the very beginning and throughout, it's very important that as we ponder these issues, we don't stray into that sort of thinking because it takes the whole energy out of the contemplation.
And like you said something about experience and the
value of immediate experience, Vijay said so too, that there is something about experience that is just overwhelmingly real to us. So if it is that sense of something that is undeniable, it's also something that we have. And if we have that, then in a sense that's all what we need to examine here. We don't need to come up with a theory about how things actually are, we just need to look at our own perception of things. So that's an important difference. We're not asked to account for the nature of reality. We're just asked to account for what seems to be the case for me. And for example, that things happen. We don't feel unqualified to have an opinion about that, no? I think we all feel pretty qualified, no? The question, does it seem to me that things happen? I would be pressed to say, I would find it hard to say, "I don't know." So there are ways of getting at this problem.
So that was a very long answer, but
it's a very important point that you make. So I hope it was somewhat helpful.
Student: "I think it is absolutely necessary for us
to understand the difference between, are we talking in the realms of appearing level truth in this class or relative level truth or the absolute level truth? If we mix or if we cross the lines of each other, then we will be falling into a never-ending pit trap. My only observation was that, which language am I talking in? German, French or English? So, one day Rinpoche said that it is absolutely important for you to understand the currency in circulation. There are appearing level truths. I somehow seemingly see you in a person and you in that camera. Thomas there, Thomas in that viewfinder of that camera, which Thomas is real? So I just wanted to make a wish also." I think it's okay. "Thank you for enlightening us." It's good to spend time on these issues at the beginning and they will come up also as we go on. Because as we talked about before, the practical dimension to this is crucial. Even if we adjust after philosophical knowledge, we need to know how to approach this text. Otherwise, it's very limited or relatively speaking very limited what we can get from it. So that's another sort of classic response. Are we talking about seeming reality or ultimate reality? At this point, I don't think we need to make a distinction. If there is an appearance, a seeming reality, that's good enough. That is what we, it is that seeming perception that we then are concerned with. And we can bracket what the nature of ultimate reality may be. So, in other words, we have all asked ourselves, is it the case that when someone says things happen and this is a world of events, things take place, that I will say "yes, of course." And we have said, "yeah, obviously. This is undeniable. I can't deny that there seems to be a world where things happen. And I'm in the middle of that world together with so many others. Undeniable." And yet then we have seen that this text begins by just saying sort of blanket denial of that. It says nowhere does anything ever arise. And if we look at the commentaries, then it says in any way at all. So, it's a complete denial of arising. So we have noticed both that we have a sense of belief in things occurring and that the text denies that 100%, says that you're wrong. Then we have also looked at the question of whether if things happen in the way that we say they do, whether it makes sense to say that in that case, either they happen because of certain things and not just randomly, or they happen randomly, they have no causes. And that there are just those two options. Now we will begin to look at the first option. If things happen and we say that they happen because of causes and conditions, then does it make sense? No, let's wait with that. Then about things arising from causes, there are three alternatives presented here. Things could arise from themselves, meaning it could be that
when a seed transforms and becomes a sprout, that it's just an appearance.
And in fact, the nature of the seed and the nature of the sprout are completely indistinguishable. It's the very same thing, so to speak. That would be one possibility, right? If we have accepted that there are causes and conditions that make things happen, once those causes and conditions are not there, then those things will not happen. When we have said that much, then we could say about those causes and conditions and the things that are produced, that they are actually the same. Or alternatively, we could say that they are not. A seed is a seed, a sprout is a sprout. They are different things. So cause and effect are not identical. So we have two opposites, right? The cause and effect are the same, cause and effect are different. So that again seems to divide the world in two, there are just those two options. So that seems very reductionist, but it also perhaps makes good sense to do so. Let us try to consider that, yeah? There is a third option, which would be a combination. That part of the sprout and part of the seed, part of the effect and part of the cause are the same, but not everything. There are also certain things that are different. The shape and the form of the sprout is different from the shape and the form of the seed. But maybe, who knows what, some DNA in the seed is the same in the sprout. So that would be an example of both, yeah? Does it make sense to say that if there are causes and conditions that make things arise, that are responsible for the arising of things, who knows what they are? We are not talking about the details of this at all. But does it make sense to say that if that is the case, then three options are available and only three: Cause and effect could be one and the same. Cause and effect could be different from each other. Or there could be some combination, which is the case, such that some things about the cause are the very same in the case of the effect, and yet some things that are the case about the cause are different with respect to the effect. So again, at home, try to think whether that is thoroughly conclusive to say that there are only these three options. Of course, there are myriads of things that we can say about causes and conditions and effects, which are not captured by these three options. But whatever it is that we want to say about cause and effect, it will have to be something that finds its place within this framework of either sameness of cause and effect, difference of cause and effect, or a combination. So it's important again that we investigate whether there might be a fourth way for causes and conditions to produce effects, meaning without cause and effect being the same, without them being different, and without them being both same and different. Because if there is, then the whole working of the reasoning below will not be conclusive. Because what we will be considering after this are those three options. If in fact there is a way for causes and conditions to produce effects which is not in terms of identity of cause and effect, not in terms of difference of cause and effect, and not in terms of their combination, then whatever we may, if we fail to find any justification for those three options, then we can still go about being believers in cause and effect in true and real causality, because there is that fourth option which remains without any damage. So it's important that we investigate whether there is such a fourth option possible. So please think about that at home until tomorrow. And like these people did today, prepare a little speech. It doesn't have to be a long speech at all, no, but like where did I get to about this question? and why did I reach the conclusion? or why did I stop at the point I stopped? We can begin to consider the first option.
It may be the case that there are causes
and effects, as indeed it seems to us, no? This is our immediate perception, we have said. And it may also be the case that we can say about those causes and effects that they seem to be different, because the appearance of difference of cause and effect is also quite undeniable, no? The seed sure looks different than the sprout. That's why we say one is the cause of the other, no? If it was just the seed and the seed, or the sprout and the sprout, then we wouldn't call it cause and effect, no? So there is a seeming difference, but it could also be the case that that's just a misperception, or something that only seems to us, but in fact there is no difference. There are philosophical systems like that, and in terms of classic Indian thought, the Sāṃkhya school had this notion of the prakṛti principle, which is transformative, and so things seem to go in and out of existence in the world, the world that I as the aware being, the puruṣa, perceive, those things seem to go in and out of existence. But in fact it's all an illusion, and what is there, the prakṛti, is always just that. It just takes on different forms. So there are many variants of this belief, no? Not just in India, but elsewhere too. And also in science, monist ideas in the philosophy of science would be of this kind perhaps, no? So that seems thoroughly possible, once we become a little philosophical about it, no?

So yeah, in... Oh, there's very little time.

This then takes us back to what we were talking about before, actually, you know, about valuing our immediate perception of things, yeah? b Because if there's no question that seed and sprout appear different, and in that sense there's no question that seed and sprout are different, right? Like if you tell me go and find a sprout in the garden and go and find a seed, I won't confuse those two, no? So if... Then we may want to say something about the nature of cause and effect, but that's not really what we are... That's not enough to say that therefore cause and effect are entirely different, are entirely the same, yeah? We may have a philosophical point of view about this, but the whole story of cause and effect cannot be told by saying that cause and effect are the same, because they sure don't seem like that, yeah? So all the causes and effects that I meet in the world, I meet because they are not the same, yeah? So I may have something to say about why they are... I may have something to say about how they are ultimately not different from each other, but that doesn't make it possible for me to deny that causes and effects are not identical in the way that they are encountered.
So in other words, if I want to say that cause and effect are the same,
because yes, I know they look different, but really they are the same, then my account is not just identity, it's a sense of the third alternative, both, yeah? Because I will have to acknowledge that cause and effect, just even as I speak these words, they are two different words, no? They are two different concepts, and all the instances of cause and effect that I meet in the world, by virtue of being instances of cause and effect, stand out as different from each other. So I may have a story to tell about ultimate identity,
and if I do, then I belong to the group of people
who believe in the third alternative, not the first.

and again prepare a few lines to explain what you get from that. There are three alternatives about cause and effect: Cause and effect could be identical, they could be different from each other, or they could be same but also different. Then we considered a philosophical stance that says apparently cause and effect are different, but wait, it is just an appearance, it is just an illusion, in fact they are one and the same. Then I was saying now that that is actually not a story about identity, but it is a story about a combination of identity and difference. So this does not qualify as cause and effect being truly the same. Is this correct or not? Or are we forgetting something? Whenever you feel that there is something that seems somewhat awkward or a bit forced, then that is the sign that you should slow down and focus on that. Whenever it seems that something that I say or that the text says, or that seems to be a little okay, maybe, but... when you get that feeling often that you cannot put your finger on it, but there is just something that sounds somewhat odd, that is the time to then really zoom in on that. Okay, thank you very much and see you tomorrow.
Good morning. So, on Friday we began looking at the first verse of the first chapter, which reads, "Not from itself, not from another, not from both, and not uncaused-- Nowhere does anything ever arise." [1.1] So, before we get further into that, let's read the homage once more. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, is not annihilated and is not permanent, does not come and does not go, is not different and not the same. To the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha I bow down." And then we considered this very startling or bizarre claim that is made in the first verse. Nowhere does anything ever arise. Neither do things appear from themselves, nor from other things, nor from a combination of themselves and other things, and yet things are not uncaused either." And then, so it's a very bizarre and seemingly completely indefensible claim that is made, that nothing ever occurs anywhere, in any way at all. And in order to nevertheless consider it, despite the apparent nonsensical nature of the claim, then we said, "Okay, what are the assumptions that are made by making this statement?" Oh, no, not quite. How well does this statement fit with my beliefs? Is there some sort of, is there part of this that I can say, "Well, that part is something that I believe in." And then we said that the sense that something happens is something that we all agree, at least there was no one who said, "I don't believe that anything ever happens." Some said, "Maybe ultimately nothing happens," or, "I believe ultimately nothing happens," but that wouldn't mean that I don't feel or perceive or think in terms of things taking place. So as long as that's the case, then we already believers in things happening. It doesn't matter whether we then qualify it in some sense and say, "Not really happening," or, "It just seems to be that way." As long as it seems to be that way, that's good enough. We can't deny that seeming, or we wouldn't want to deny that. If someone wants to deny it, that's fine, then we can talk about that. It's more than fine if anyone would like to deny that.
So that was one simple piece of ground to cover.
It does indeed seem that things occur. It's hard to deny that, if not outright impossible to deny that.
So then we noticed that the way that lack of arising
is considered here is in terms of four alternatives. That things could perhaps arise from themselves, they could be caused by themselves, they could be caused by other things, they could be caused by both themselves and other things, or they could just be independent of causes. So in this way, the four alternatives come down to two alternatives, really, because things could have causes and they could also be uncaused. They could be just happening randomly, completely randomly, because if they're even a little bit not random, then there would still be some acknowledgement of causes and conditions. So there are two basic alternatives with respect to arising: caused and not caused. And then we spent some time considering whether that is a conclusive way of describing the apparent arising of things, or could there be an alternative? So I didn't make the jar yet with the names, but maybe one of you can explain what you think individually about this. Do things arise? Is that something you believe in or feel is true? Or what? And then secondly, do you think it is fair to say, in fact correct to say, that either this appearance has to be contingent on certain causes and conditions, or it has to be uncaused? And that those two basic alternatives capture all conceivable and inconceivable ways for things to arise. Anyone would like to explain what they think about that?
It's important that each one of us comes up with an
account in this way, of where we are at with the reasoning. In our own minds we have to have reached some point of conclusion. When we come to the next class, then we have to have, maybe we can say, "Okay, I'm not done with thinking about this," but then we need to know what it is that we are done with thinking about. That's the only way to guarantee that something really profound will come from the contemplation. If we do that, then it's guaranteed. But if we don't, then of course it's probably not going to be very profound. I mean it might be fun and cool and so on along the way, but it's not going to be anything like what they talk about in the texts. But if we do make that effort to notice what exactly do I believe at this point? what exactly is my reply to the question that the text brought up or that we together sort of extract from the text? Then there's no question that it will be amazing. It's just an amazing fact about this text. So we can… Vijay, please. Student: "Thomas, this is first time ever in my life that I'm taking a class in a monastery, so please excuse me for my ignorance. But what you said I found it so profound was that do the things really never happen or they seemingly happen, okay?" Or just simply do I believe that things happen or not? "I believe things seemingly happen. That is my experiential level understanding. My intellectual level understanding is that things really never happen, you know. But I don't give a damn for intellectual understanding of the things as long as they are not in my behavioural conduct, you know. So I'm in the middle, I'm in the confusion. My state is that I theoretically believe that things never happen. But on an experiencer level understanding, I believe that things seemingly happen, you know. So I would like you to set some light on it, on my confusion, you know." Yeah, well, I can try to think about it at my end now and in my…
In whichever way I can participate, yeah?
So thank you. I think this is again one of these issues that concern us all very much, you know. Certainly once we begin to study Buddhist philosophy or other forms of philosophy too, it could possibly make us arrive at this, who knows, maybe even some sort of, yeah. Variants of this sense could also come from some sort of scientific understanding where we perhaps say that, okay, things seem to me to be in one way but I understand or I believe that actually they have nothing to do, the way things are has nothing to do with what I see and believe that would be a variant of this kind of perception as well or this kind of belief as well, yeah. But then you say that my experience is more important, yeah? So then we have a choice, yeah, all the time to say what is more important, my experience or my understanding? And I think we probably shift, yeah, because we can't just go by experience and we can't just go by intellectual understanding. Of course what we think of as direct experience has a very sort of powerful and rich flavour but we still have to think about it, yeah? We can't just say, okay, it's so rich and so amazing so I don't need to think about it, I won't think about it. What goes on in my direct experience? We still have to make sense of it, I still have to think, okay, this was fantastic, now how do I get home? Or how can I get something to eat now? Stuff like that, those thoughts come up all the time, yeah, and there's no way of getting around those.
So the way we are equipped right now, I think it makes sense to
say that we need both experience and intellectual understanding. Of course we can't go by pure intellectual understanding. Intellectual understanding is based on our experience or at least informed by experience. So they probably develop in some sort of dependency on each other, experience and understanding. Then the very strange thing that can happen is when it may begin to seem to us that there's a huge conflict between what I feel and perceive and what I actually believe is true. And especially if we begin to study this kind of philosophy or Buddhist philosophy in general, like we talked about just the absence of a personal self in the beginning of these classes. And that too seems to be very counterintuitive, that there's no enduring single individual. And yet we could find quite easily after just a little bit of contemplation that there was no basis whatsoever for that belief. So that is a very strange situation to be in. And I think it's how do we work with that profound dilemma?.. or it's worse than a dilemma. This is something that we will be addressing continuously.
So since we can't do with just experience and since we
can't do with just intellectual understanding of things, now we are, and since we have the perception of things happening, it feels to us, it seems to us that things happen, now we would like to apply our intellect to that appearance and see, okay, it seems so overwhelmingly true that things happen, to the point that simply considering whether it might not be the case seems ridiculous, absurd. Nonetheless, now I will try to, if it is that clear experientially that things happen, then it should be possible also in some way to account for that rationally, that it happens and because of such and such, it must be possible to provide a somewhat okay account of why this seems so overwhelmingly to be the case. And that's what we're trying to get at now. We started out saying yes indeed, after having thought about it, we looked at our own experience and our own understanding of things. And then we recognized yes, it seems indeed to me that things arise. Now I want to see how so? Is that perception in accord with the way things actually are. I want to see how far I can get with this.
And in particular, because we hear here in the very first statement
that the author makes the claim that nothing arises anywhere, nothing at all, anywhere, in any way at all. So it seems to be even including the immediate perception of arising, that that is something he says it just doesn't occur. Otherwise, why would he say nowhere does anything ever arise? He's not saying except that it may seem to be the case, but no, there's no but in this. It's a just completely unqualified denial of arising, seemingly. So let's try and see what we can do with that.
And you were going to say something about…

Student: "Yeah, I think the gentleman already answered
the first thing how I would also perceive it. And yeah, I give a lot of credit to my direct perception basically, so therefore I'm more lenient to the sight of experience than to my intellectual understanding. But then I think…" It's interesting, just a comment here, it's interesting that people are different in this way. Like when people become philosophical about things, then they may go in that direction and say, "Experience is the most immediately accessible and directly meaningful." Or they may say, "But experience is so confused and unclear, so we need reason to figure out what really is going on." So it's the kind of choice we have. Like we can say, "I value this more," or "I value that more," but we can't just throw one out and keep the other. That's not an option. "Yeah, I think I do that because I work in psychiatry and I'm sort of a little bit afraid that I go cuckoo, you know, if I lose touch with the seeming reality. But still I'm not forgetting my intellectual understanding, but like little by little I try to test it maybe in my daily experience, to little by little bring it in. And the other question about cause and uncaused, yeah, I think there cannot be a third alternative. It is like, I think the German example is always a duck, you know, the bird. The bird is basically ducks and no ducks, non-ducks, you know. There's no third alternative because they're just conceptually contradictory. So therefore I think cause or uncaused or me or non-me's, yeah, there cannot be a third one." Okay, yeah, thank you.
Great, so that's an example of like having
a good clear sense of where I'm at, no? Like I try to understand, analyze and investigate the nature of reality, but what I find is, seems to be in quite some contrast with what I immediately perceive. And I can't just take that in and it's also not perhaps altogether clear to me what then things are, if they aren't what they seem. But I feel that, just adding a little bit, yeah, I don't know if this is descriptive of where you're coming from, no? But what you said is a very nice example of having thought, okay, so what is it like for me? Where am I at in terms of this? So as long as we keep that up, then definitely we will learn so much. So one can feel like that and therefore it's very important that I don't forget the way things come across and that gives a grounding that would be terrible to lose. And then the question, do things arise? If they arise, is it fair to say that either they have some causal dependence or they're just uncaused and that there's no third option? And then Anna said, yeah, that makes sense to me because it's like one is the negation of the other and what would the third option be? So that's one way of, in one's own mind, settling that question. Anybody else? One from online. Okay, sure. Thank you. Okay, Andy, can you speak? Student: "Yes, can you hear me?" Yeah. "Can you hear me?" Yes. "Yes?" Yeah, thank you. "Thank you. Well, first, I just wanted to say thank you to Thomas for teaching this. It's already been quite valuable and an incredible experience, so just thank you. And second, I just wanted to preface by saying I have studied a little bit of Madhyamaka for a few years, so I'm not totally naïve, which is maybe worth nothing at all, but I just want to mention that as well. It seems to me when I investigate my experience that I sort of believe things sort of happen. They sort of happen. If my younger brother gets sick with a bacterial infection and then I need to, I will want an antibiotic to get rid of this bacterial infection. I will not be too interested in hearing that things don't arise and there are no causes. I just want to have the antibiotic from the pharmacy to give to him. But at the same time, if I'm pressed to defend a specific account of how exactly this antibiotic will get rid of this bacterial infection or is it absolutely the case that only this will cause the end of this bacterial infection, then I won't. I won't be able to defend a specific account and I will not be willing to say that absolutely this is the only factor at play here. And likewise with whether things happen or not, in my day-to-day life I will act as if they do and I'll try to find a rough correlation between things happening and some sort of rough correlation between the efficacy that my actions seem to have. But again, if I'm sort of pressed at a verbal or intellectual level to defend an absolute account, then basically I won't. I won't be willing to. So that's kind of my personal results of my investigation or your request to investigate it over the weekend." Thank you. Yeah, that's great. And I think what we can notice then here is that you then have looked at your own beliefs and your own perceptions and found a very nice example of a situation where this claim would be utterly useless. That nowhere does anything ever arise. It seems to have nothing to do with the concrete situation which clearly calls for your attention. Your brother is sick and you need to get a medicine. All of that is causal thinking of course. So basically what you're saying is, and we don't have to say, "Okay, if I believe in causality, I have to know everything about causality. I need to know exactly what is the right story about how the medicine works." That's not necessary here at all. The only thing we need to notice is precisely what you noticed already, that there is an immediate justification for believing in causes and conditions, like in the example of medicine. That person needs medicine. Without it, he will continue to suffer. And if he gets the medicine, he may be cured right away. It's a perfect, classic example of causes and conditions. So in other words, what you have arrived at very clearly and conclusively is that you believe in causes and conditions, that they have a relevance to the extent that a claim of this kind becomes, you can just forget about it. There is a situation where clearly some cause is required and if we don't get that causal constellation in place, something bad will happen. So great, you're 100% with Nāgārjuna, so to speak. To put it in those terms, you say, "Okay, he's talking about things happening or not and he's talking about causes or not. I certainly believe things happen and I certainly believe that there are causes and conditions." Thank you.
Student: "Hi Thomas. Thank you for teaching these lectures. So I
have a question to you actually regarding what we've just been talking about. So you said at the beginning of the class that it's very important for us to reflect on our own experiences, what we believe in, and kind of reflect on the teachings of Nāgārjuna. And people have been sharing what they believe and their experiences. But my problem is I've basically come to the conclusion that my experience is very deluded. So experientially I think I'm deluded and intellectually I believe that I don't really know anything about the reality of things. And because of this, I don't really have a basis for me to kind of critically engage with this. I'm basically taking whatever Nāgārjuna says as right because I think experientially he's not as deluded as I am. Intellectually he's done a lot of thinking and research. So this way I'm kind of just taking whatever he says as the commandment. But you said it's important for us to reflect. So I don't know in this way how should I engage with the teachings?" Right, thank you. That's also something we can all relate to too. And we talked about that a little bit before also. Like how could I really know and have an informed opinion about this? Especially..
Even if we have just gone to school and learned about the things that we learn about in school,
if we stay for several years, then we learn something about science and related topics that typically tell us that things are in ways that seem very different from what they seem. As soon as we go a little bit beyond the surface in physics, chemistry and what have you, biology or the whole range of science actually, then we find something that seems very different from what things seem to be. So how can I really, if we're talking about what reality is, how could I know that? It's a very natural hesitation or doubt to have.
So I think there are two things I would like to say about that.
And one is, we talked about also in the beginning that there are two approaches to coming to understand the nature of reality. And one is the scholarly approach of learning and reflecting, resolving the view with the help of scripture and critical analysis. That is one classic highway. And then it's also possible, that process is comprehensive
and requires a lot of commitment, stamina to go through with.
Typically in the monastic colleges, people spend their entire waking life immersed in scholarship, in learning, reflecting and meditating on what they learn. Getting up very early in the morning, going to bed quite late, and very little of the day is really spent in any other way. There are some breaks and meal times, but if you stay in that sort of institution, it's a very high powered environment to be in.
But it's also possible to be in a position to make an
almost shortcut where this actually isn't necessary.
That is another classic approach which has been
transmitted and instantiated numerous times. Many, many instances of great awakening taking place on a different path. That requires an experienced and realized teacher, and then a disciple who can connect with that type of wisdom teacher. And how can a disciple connect in that way? They say it requires 100% openness and no doubt whatsoever about the teacher and the teaching, so that you're just completely ready to take in. So that's an extremely vulnerable situation to be in. If you meet the wrong teacher, then you're done. And if you believe in reincarnation, you're done now and probably for a very long time. So it's a very, very risky space to be in. But on the other hand, if you meet an authentic teacher, then these things can happen. So again, we can try and look at ourselves and say, "Okay, I understand that there's such a thing that must be possible, that it must be possible to be introduced directly to the nature of awakened mind, whichever way we might want to phrase that. That it's possible to arrive at genuine insight without much analysis at all through some skillful interface and some extraordinary connection. But am I that kind of person who has complete, not a shadow of a doubt about this teaching being, this teacher and this teaching being able to show me reality just as it is or not? And probably many of us will feel that, "Okay, I sure believe and it's a wonderful person and those teachings are amazing. I love them. Actually, I've spent quite a few years trying to understand and practice these teachings. I try to follow my teacher and so on. That's all good, wonderful and excellent, if it is a good teacher, of course. As long as it's at least an okay teacher, then that is all great and wholesome teaching. But if we don't have that complete readiness to just receive and apply, that's also what we talked about in the beginning, that the instructions that are then given are not meant for analysis or just for us to wonder about. They're meant to be applied. And as long as we keep thinking about the instruction, we don't apply the instruction.
Am I that kind of person who is beyond wondering
about the instruction and just applying or not? And I think many of us will feel that I'm not that doubt-free and that the only concern is realizing the nature of reality. Nothing else has any relevance at all. Like they say, like a starving person who has gone without food for many, many days. He or she doesn't go around wondering about many things, but only one thing matters. So are we that kind of person? And do we then have no doubt about what it is exactly that we need? Perhaps we are, but perhaps we are not. And I think especially in the common, in our time, it's probably quite likely that we aren't, because we have been taught from as long as we can remember that we have to be careful and quite skeptical and examine things well. There are good reasons for that, but it has become like our second nature. So it's very, very difficult to go about things in another way. So that was just the one thing I wanted to say. Sorry for being so, going on in such a long way. But the second thing is then that we can then connect with the scholarly approach in a profound way by studying a treatise like this one, "The Root of the Middle Way."n We don't have to necessarily spend a decade or two or three as scholars and becoming scholars, resolving the view through learning and reflection and meditation with the help of scripture and reasoning. We can spend much shorter time, as long as it's done sincerely and carefully and from the heart, then we can resolve a whole lot by just studying a treatise like this. But for us to be able to do that, then we have to take ourselves seriously. We have to say to ourselves, "Okay, to be honest, I don't feel very smart, intelligent, in terms of being able to know the nature of reality. Who could? Perhaps we feel that who could possibly know the nature of reality? Certainly not me, and to be frank, I don't think anyone actually can." That's perfectly possible that we think like that. But to benefit from the contemplation here, we have to go about it differently. We have to forget that attitude as we contemplate. And why? Again, it's just a practical matter. If we keep thinking like that, then that will be all that we ever think. Because I can't fully understand that no matter what we come to think, no matter what kind of seeming understanding we have, it won't matter that much to us. Because there's always that doubt. So that's something that we can again, something let's keep coming back to this again and again, see how it works to give oneself the guts and the pride to say, "I can understand this, why not?" And then as we go through with the investigation, what happens to that sense of not being qualified? I would like us all to remember that. Right now we probably all have that sense that I'm not really equipped to say conclusively something about the nature of reality. It may be in one way, it may be in another, and it may be in an altogether different way. Right now we probably all have that sense too, to some extent, but what happens as we keep learning and reflecting here to that sense? That sense of not being qualified. In any case, at the very beginning and throughout, it's very important that as we ponder these issues, we don't stray into that sort of thinking because it takes the whole energy out of the contemplation.
And like you said something about experience and the
value of immediate experience, Vijay said so too, that there is something about experience that is just overwhelmingly real to us. So if it is that sense of something that is undeniable, it's also something that we have. And if we have that, then in a sense that's all what we need to examine here. We don't need to come up with a theory about how things actually are, we just need to look at our own perception of things. So that's an important difference. We're not asked to account for the nature of reality. We're just asked to account for what seems to be the case for me. And for example, that things happen. We don't feel unqualified to have an opinion about that, no? I think we all feel pretty qualified, no? The question, does it seem to me that things happen? I would be pressed to say, I would find it hard to say, "I don't know." So there are ways of getting at this problem.
So that was a very long answer, but
it's a very important point that you make. So I hope it was somewhat helpful.
Student: "I think it is absolutely necessary for us
to understand the difference between, are we talking in the realms of appearing level truth in this class or relative level truth or the absolute level truth? If we mix or if we cross the lines of each other, then we will be falling into a never-ending pit trap. My only observation was that, which language am I talking in? German, French or English? So, one day Rinpoche said that it is absolutely important for you to understand the currency in circulation. There are appearing level truths. I somehow seemingly see you in a person and you in that camera. Thomas there, Thomas in that viewfinder of that camera, which Thomas is real? So I just wanted to make a wish also." I think it's okay. "Thank you for enlightening us." It's good to spend time on these issues at the beginning and they will come up also as we go on. Because as we talked about before, the practical dimension to this is crucial. Even if we adjust after philosophical knowledge, we need to know how to approach this text. Otherwise, it's very limited or relatively speaking very limited what we can get from it. So that's another sort of classic response. Are we talking about seeming reality or ultimate reality? At this point, I don't think we need to make a distinction. If there is an appearance, a seeming reality, that's good enough. That is what we, it is that seeming perception that we then are concerned with. And we can bracket what the nature of ultimate reality may be. So, in other words, we have all asked ourselves, is it the case that when someone says things happen and this is a world of events, things take place, that I will say "yes, of course." And we have said, "yeah, obviously. This is undeniable. I can't deny that there seems to be a world where things happen. And I'm in the middle of that world together with so many others. Undeniable." And yet then we have seen that this text begins by just saying sort of blanket denial of that. It says nowhere does anything ever arise. And if we look at the commentaries, then it says in any way at all. So, it's a complete denial of arising. So we have noticed both that we have a sense of belief in things occurring and that the text denies that 100%, says that you're wrong. Then we have also looked at the question of whether if things happen in the way that we say they do, whether it makes sense to say that in that case, either they happen because of certain things and not just randomly, or they happen randomly, they have no causes. And that there are just those two options. Now we will begin to look at the first option. If things happen and we say that they happen because of causes and conditions, then does it make sense? No, let's wait with that. Then about things arising from causes, there are three alternatives presented here. Things could arise from themselves, meaning it could be that
when a seed transforms and becomes a sprout, that it's just an appearance.
And in fact, the nature of the seed and the nature of the sprout are completely indistinguishable. It's the very same thing, so to speak. That would be one possibility, right? If we have accepted that there are causes and conditions that make things happen, once those causes and conditions are not there, then those things will not happen. When we have said that much, then we could say about those causes and conditions and the things that are produced, that they are actually the same. Or alternatively, we could say that they are not. A seed is a seed, a sprout is a sprout. They are different things. So cause and effect are not identical. So we have two opposites, right? The cause and effect are the same, cause and effect are different. So that again seems to divide the world in two, there are just those two options. So that seems very reductionist, but it also perhaps makes good sense to do so. Let us try to consider that, yeah? There is a third option, which would be a combination. That part of the sprout and part of the seed, part of the effect and part of the cause are the same, but not everything. There are also certain things that are different. The shape and the form of the sprout is different from the shape and the form of the seed. But maybe, who knows what, some DNA in the seed is the same in the sprout. So that would be an example of both, yeah? Does it make sense to say that if there are causes and conditions that make things arise, that are responsible for the arising of things, who knows what they are? We are not talking about the details of this at all. But does it make sense to say that if that is the case, then three options are available and only three: Cause and effect could be one and the same. Cause and effect could be different from each other. Or there could be some combination, which is the case, such that some things about the cause are the very same in the case of the effect, and yet some things that are the case about the cause are different with respect to the effect. So again, at home, try to think whether that is thoroughly conclusive to say that there are only these three options. Of course, there are myriads of things that we can say about causes and conditions and effects, which are not captured by these three options. But whatever it is that we want to say about cause and effect, it will have to be something that finds its place within this framework of either sameness of cause and effect, difference of cause and effect, or a combination. So it's important again that we investigate whether there might be a fourth way for causes and conditions to produce effects, meaning without cause and effect being the same, without them being different, and without them being both same and different. Because if there is, then the whole working of the reasoning below will not be conclusive. Because what we will be considering after this are those three options. If in fact there is a way for causes and conditions to produce effects which is not in terms of identity of cause and effect, not in terms of difference of cause and effect, and not in terms of their combination, then whatever we may, if we fail to find any justification for those three options, then we can still go about being believers in cause and effect in true and real causality, because there is that fourth option which remains without any damage. So it's important that we investigate whether there is such a fourth option possible. So please think about that at home until tomorrow. And like these people did today, prepare a little speech. It doesn't have to be a long speech at all, no, but like where did I get to about this question? and why did I reach the conclusion? or why did I stop at the point I stopped? We can begin to consider the first option.
It may be the case that there are causes
and effects, as indeed it seems to us, no? This is our immediate perception, we have said. And it may also be the case that we can say about those causes and effects that they seem to be different, because the appearance of difference of cause and effect is also quite undeniable, no? The seed sure looks different than the sprout. That's why we say one is the cause of the other, no? If it was just the seed and the seed, or the sprout and the sprout, then we wouldn't call it cause and effect, no? So there is a seeming difference, but it could also be the case that that's just a misperception, or something that only seems to us, but in fact there is no difference. There are philosophical systems like that, and in terms of classic Indian thought, the Sāṃkhya school had this notion of the prakṛti principle, which is transformative, and so things seem to go in and out of existence in the world, the world that I as the aware being, the puruṣa, perceive, those things seem to go in and out of existence. But in fact it's all an illusion, and what is there, the prakṛti, is always just that. It just takes on different forms. So there are many variants of this belief, no? Not just in India, but elsewhere too. And also in science, monist ideas in the philosophy of science would be of this kind perhaps, no? So that seems thoroughly possible, once we become a little philosophical about it, no?

So yeah, in... Oh, there's very little time.

This then takes us back to what we were talking about before, actually, you know, about valuing our immediate perception of things, yeah? b Because if there's no question that seed and sprout appear different, and in that sense there's no question that seed and sprout are different, right? Like if you tell me go and find a sprout in the garden and go and find a seed, I won't confuse those two, no? So if... Then we may want to say something about the nature of cause and effect, but that's not really what we are... That's not enough to say that therefore cause and effect are entirely different, are entirely the same, yeah? We may have a philosophical point of view about this, but the whole story of cause and effect cannot be told by saying that cause and effect are the same, because they sure don't seem like that, yeah? So all the causes and effects that I meet in the world, I meet because they are not the same, yeah? So I may have something to say about why they are... I may have something to say about how they are ultimately not different from each other, but that doesn't make it possible for me to deny that causes and effects are not identical in the way that they are encountered.
So in other words, if I want to say that cause and effect are the same,
because yes, I know they look different, but really they are the same, then my account is not just identity, it's a sense of the third alternative, both, yeah? Because I will have to acknowledge that cause and effect, just even as I speak these words, they are two different words, no? They are two different concepts, and all the instances of cause and effect that I meet in the world, by virtue of being instances of cause and effect, stand out as different from each other. So I may have a story to tell about ultimate identity,
and if I do, then I belong to the group of people
who believe in the third alternative, not the first.

and again prepare a few lines to explain what you get from that. There are three alternatives about cause and effect: Cause and effect could be identical, they could be different from each other, or they could be same but also different. Then we considered a philosophical stance that says apparently cause and effect are different, but wait, it is just an appearance, it is just an illusion, in fact they are one and the same. Then I was saying now that that is actually not a story about identity, but it is a story about a combination of identity and difference. So this does not qualify as cause and effect being truly the same. Is this correct or not? Or are we forgetting something? Whenever you feel that there is something that seems somewhat awkward or a bit forced, then that is the sign that you should slow down and focus on that. Whenever it seems that something that I say or that the text says, or that seems to be a little okay, maybe, but... when you get that feeling often that you cannot put your finger on it, but there is just something that sounds somewhat odd, that is the time to then really zoom in on that. Okay, thank you very much and see you tomorrow.
video
play-rounded-outline
17:26

Root of The Middle Way – Session 06

Nowhere does anything ever arise
Teacher: 
Location: 
  • Rangjung Yeshe Institute - Nepal
Description >>

Session 6 focuses on Chapter 1, Verse 1 of “The Root of the Middle Way,” challenging our perception by stating, “Nowhere does anything ever arise.” It prompts discussions on causality’s alternatives: things arising from themselves, others, both, or being uncaused, ultimately seen as caused or uncaused. Discussions delve into cause and effect, considering identity, difference, or both, while questioning whether other possibilities exist.

Video
Audio
video
play-rounded-outline
 
Good morning everybody. Hello. Good morning. Very sorry I'm late, but let's begin. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, is not annihilated and is not permanent, does not come and does not go, is not different and not the same to the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha, I bow down."
All Right. So,
We are into first verse of the first investigation, the Analysis of Conditions.
And we have thought about whether things arise,
whether there is at least some appearance of arising that we can recognize. Would you mind closing the door here? Thank you.
And then we have considered whether it is right
to say that if there is such an appearance of arising, if it seems that things happen,
that then such arising of things could only
happen in two different ways: eiither it would be an arising of things that is determined by and restricted by causal constellations, causes and conditions, or otherwise it is an arising that is completely independent of that. So uncaused arising, completely random arising. And I think we have all agreed, we have each individually said that the appearance of arising is something that we do know and cannot deny. And we have also, I haven't heard anyone object to this categorization into two basic forms of arising, and saying that that is all inclusive, that there's nothing, that doesn't find its place in these two categories. But please think about it still. Is there some form of arising that could be of a third order, neither causal nor random? And then we began to look at each of the four alternatives that are presented, because as we know, the first three are variants of the view that things arise based on causes and conditions, and then the fourth is the second alternative. So the first of the two alternatives: caused versus not caused arising, that first alternative is itself divided into three, where we say again, the aim is to come up with some categories that capture everything that comes under the main category. So what is the main category? It is arising based on causes and conditions. And then the author would like to have us agree that it is fair to say that any form of arising can be captured within three categories. Things arise, that would be the first explanation of the arising of things. Things arise from causes that are identical with the arisen thing. So cause and effect are identical. That is the first variant. Secondly, it could be the case that things arise from other things, from things that are different from themselves. In other words, the view that cause and effect are different. Or it could be the case that what is happening is really neither of the first two in isolation, but it's a combination of them - that things arise both from themselves and from other things. And then we wonder, is it true that again, this simple categorization is a way of capturing any form of arising? So causality, of course, is extremely complex. And yet here we are challenged to say, do we agree that regardless of the incredible complexity, the sort of the fathomless complexity of causality. Because who really can compreehend fully how things interact and give rise to each other. Despite this fathomless complexity of causality, that all forms of cause and effect find their place in this simple framework of three different views about it. It could be the view that we could think that this myriad forms of causes, conditions and effects are all really the same, that they are of the very same identity. Or we could think that they are different from each other, or we could think that they are a combination. So that is something that is very important for us to think of. Again, is there a fourth, in this case, possibility with respect to causality? So we did that to some extent yesterday also. And the point is to, whenever we consider questions here, to then keep them burning, in the breaks and at home, in your sessions of study, contemplation, and to come to a sense of precisely where you're at yourselves.
We also went further than this. We said that
we began to consider the feasibility of the first account, that things, causes and effects are the same And we didn't spend much time on it. In effect, we dismissed it quite quickly. We said that the only way to defend this view is to say, is a sort of doctrine of illusion. The only way that we can get away with saying that cause and effect are the same is to say, that cause and effect aren't what they seem. Because cause and effect do come across as different from each other, no? There's cause and there's effect. So the only way to become a believer in the first option is to say,
it's just an illusion. What you see is not reality.
In fact, cause and effect are no different from each other. And then we very sort of high-handedly, if that's the right expression, we dismissed any sort of philosophical orientation that takes that shape
by saying that if that is our idea,
if we have this sort of framework that says appearance is illusory, reality is different, reality is one, the appearance is multiple and diverse. If that is our view, and there are many schools of thought that operate with this sort of view, both Buddhist and non-Buddhist, ancient and modern, scientific accounts that take this form. But we sort of brush them all. We say, what you have there is not a pure monism. So in a way, the very idea of monism, that there is what reality is one, and the appearance of diversity and complexity is just appearance. All of that we swept aside with just a single remark. We said the fact that you acknowledge diversity at the level of appearance means that you are not a pure monist, that you cannot defend pure monism. In fact, what you defend is not the first alternative, that things arise from themselves, it's the third alternative. Because what you say is that in one way, things are different, namely in the way that they come across, in the way that they appear, but in fact they are one. So that doesn't cut it for the first alternative. The first alternative is a non-starter, in other words. It doesn't work to say that this is all that there is to say, all is one, because there is the appearance that we cannot deny. So that's a very... I don't know what to call that kind of approach. It's not being very patient with the opposition,
or with all the very
many philosophical, religious, scientific approaches that make this claim of monism.
Because we say that the very idea
just doesn't work. You may call it monism, but it's not. So I think that's more or less where we ended yesterday, and it would be great if someone can, whatever you have reflected about at home I'd be very happy to hear where you've got to. And again, the key is to say, where have I gotten to? That's actually the only thing that's really interesting at this point. We can study Mādhyamaka philosophy later, so to speak. There's this sense of a sort of first encounter, a direct encounter, where we don't have to keep any philosophical categories in mind at all, except from those that just present themselves naturally to us as truths.
So now we have said that monism isn't true.
It's a hopelessly flawed idea, and it took us less than a minute to say so. So that's something to think of. Is this fair? It doesn't seem polite, at least. It doesn't seem very accommodating or not really willing to engage in any sort of dialogue. It's just throwing an argument in somebody's face, really in our own face, because we're talking about, we're investigating our own opinions. And perhaps monism has a great appeal in many ways. Perhaps it doesn't. Perhaps we are strongly against it. But there may be many of us who feel that that's a good case for that, whether we come from a philosophical, religious or scientific background.
Thank you.

Student: "Hello? I think that there is a good argument
for monism, because you say that, okay, so we can't see it. No, I can't see it with having my eyes like this. But if I put on glasses and if I put on, you know, how do you say, the right tools, I can see atoms at some point. I can identify them with my, you know, reality, a view. And at that point, everything is the same. It is one. Like, you know, if it's all like, I don't know, then they split up the atoms, but it's not different anymore."
If we accept that what we see is a physical reality and so on, yeah?
Student: "Yeah, because you said that, you know, the way of refuting this is to say, well, you can just see that there are causes, you know, that there are cause and effect. So we are in the third option. But I would refute that by saying, no, we're not in the third option, because it just depends on the tools we have to see that it is indeed the same." Right. So, yeah, I think what we need to say is we refute the very idea of monism as this sort of true monism really all is one and that's the whole story. Student: "But it is, right?" Yeah. So if that is what monism is, then we have refute monism hereby, arguably. And let's argue about it. But so how is that the case? If by saying that because we have to put on special glasses, that's why it's not just all the same. It's not the whole story. So we are not, we still have some sort of flame of monism burning somewhere. It hasn't died out entirely because we have just relegated it to a different category. We say monism, what people call monism isn't entirely monism, but okay, let's call it monism and then place it in the third category as an account of things arising both from themselves, meaning the shared identity of cause and effect, and then an acknowledgement of diversity and difference. Student: "But I don't like, because, okay, so let's say the other way. So what we talked about this yesterday, I go into a spaceship, people have been on spaceships and they have gone to Mars, right? Or the moon at least, not Mars, sorry." Yes, they have, no? Student: "Well, we don't know about it. Maybe we have. I'm not part of any secret group. Anyways, from that point, from the moon, the earth is one, right?" From the point of the moon, the earth is one? Student: "Yeah, like I'm just trying to…" So that is different. If we talk about constructs, if we say it's useful to speak about things as if they are all one, then fine. Here we are just trying to see, are these views and accounts actually true? True in terms of things as they are? Does it capture the nature of reality to say that all is one, period? Student: "Yeah, probably not when you say it like that." So okay, probably not when you say it like that. That's a very good example of don't agree easily. Okay. And think more about it, yeah?
Thank you.

Student: "So yeah, I think that this argument that you
gave yesterday somewhat strawmans the like monist perspective. In other words, I don't think monists think themselves that appearances don't differ, right? So clearly a monist view has to incorporate the apparent difference of appearances. And so a more charitable read, trying to give monism a more charitable read, and I also want to bring in what we were talking about yesterday and the day before in terms of, do things happen?" Those are very related, yeah? Student: "They're very related. Yeah. And one thing that folks were talking about yesterday and the day before is this conceptual belief that things don't happen, but maybe a perceptual encounter with things happening. And I want to add to that and just talk about how there's kind of different ways to perceive happening. And meditation is a good example. When you meditate, things seem to happen a little bit differently or the nature of happening seems to change a little bit. In particular, I would say, just speaking personally, I've tried to meditate on things like thoughts or even physical appearances. And because of the encounter with impermanence, they never really seem to manifest the way that I conceptually impute them to manifest, when I'm just moving around in my daily life. So in other words, on a certain level of perception, things don't appear, things don't happen the way that I normally think that they do. So if we're trying to be a little bit more generous to monism, but also maybe even a monism that doesn't require some kind of ontological commitment to a substrate, a causal substrate that is actually the same between cause and effect, which I think is easily refuted by other arguments. What if we said something like cause and effect are actually the same and that neither cause nor effect happens. And yet we have the everyday appearance, the everyday encounter with causes and effects. So the monism is actually a monism of non-happening, non-arising, which is in line with what Nāgārjuna is arguing here. And so that seems to me to be a more charitable, more plausible account of monism." Right. Thank you. First about the meditation experience.
I think, yeah, the question is
just whether it makes sense to say things happen. We are not committed at that point to any particular version of the arising of things or any particular version of the appearance of arising. It's just, is there that or not? Yeah. So even if it seems that there are times when there is no arising whatsoever, if there are other times where it does seem to be the case, then we would still be at the same basic position that things happen. They don't have to happen all the time, but if they do at least sometimes, then yeah, that's enough of a commitment here. That's the only question we're asking. Does it seem that things happen? Not necessarily all the time, not necessarily in a sort of predictable way or whatever else expectations we may have about it, but just does it seem to be the case? And then your defense of monism, I think, is very fine and accurate as an account also of classic monism. Well, it's actually not monism. The Sāṃkhya philosophy, because it's a basic dualism, but it just, there's a soul, a conscious being that perceives the world of prakṛti. But prakṛti, it is actually dualism, but within the principle of prakṛti, all the objects
there is a seeming difference
between cause and effect, but in fact there is none. So as you say precisely, really it's a matter of ultimate non-arising and relative seeming arising. So that's the cause that I think any monist orientation will have to take, because otherwise it doesn't work. We have to acknowledge where we are right now as a starting point at least, and then we can say something about the reality of that. But what we are then further saying is that if that's what is the case with monism, then it shouldn't be considered a strong claim of the type that we see in the first alternative. It's sort of on the one hand, and on the other hand yes, on the other hand no kind of perspective. And whether that's acceptable to the monist thinker, believer or not, that's for them to decide. But arguably with this we have said that if you go for the strong claim, you aren't going to succeed. If you go for the strong claim to say all is one, plus that's it then you're missing a very important part of the story.
So is that fair to say that
if you think you can be that strong, I don't even need to talk to you? If you think you can be that clear in your presentation of what all of this really is, then good luck, but you will never get anywhere.
Is that correct? Is it correct that the really
strong claim is impossible to maintain and that it can be refuted very quickly and decisively by saying, well, don't you acknowledge at least some seeming appearance? What do you think? This is a real key to think of in your own hearts.
Student: "This is not like a response to that question
that you just asked, but a little bit before. So I would say that I agree with the first option, that cause and effect are the same because my conceptual experience of both cause and effect arise out of the same illusionistic view that I am who I think I am. Therefore, they are both born out of the same personal narrative that I used to define myself and the world around me. And since they both arise from this personal narrative, although they may appear different, they are both born out of the same source of identity which I maintain throughout my life. Therefore, since they both are born out of the same notion of self-identity, they are the same thing."
Okay, let me see if I understood this correctly,
that cause and effect are same insofar as they are, what to say, your constructs? Is that correct? Student: "Yeah, like cause and effect are both constructs that I have created. So they are the same thing." So whether you have created them or whether there's a little more to say about how they are created is a different story, you know, but yeah, sure, often we talk like that, yeah.
So but I guess that has to do with, what to say?

That's interesting.
Cause and effect. So you say that you agree with the first, your views fit with the first alternative? Student: "Yeah, option one." Option one, because cause and effect or any instance of cause and effect is the same in being a construction. So, I think
we would reply
the same as before, that okay, the same as construction but hey, the constructs, cause, effect are not identical, yeah. So in fact you came up with a sophisticated account of not the first, but the third alternative, yeah. You wanted to have room for some sameness of cause and effect, and you chose to let that sameness be in terms of construction and at the same time you wanted to say that there is this world, yeah, that gives an appearance of difference. So that would again be a version of option three.
Student: "Okay, thank you."
Thank you. "So there's one online?" Yeah, absolutely, sure. "Hello Don, can you speak?"
Student: "Yes, I was wondering about these first two
standards that we're talking about. You know, nowhere does anything ever arise? So then there's these four conditions as a reply, I'm assuming.
So the context of this analysis of conditions,
Nāgārjuna is discussing this with someone.
And so the context is he's given a commentary on
Shakyamuni's teaching on Vulture Peak Mountain.
So these four conditions, where it says there is
no fifth condition, maybe it's not a condition, maybe there is no condition. That's why there isn't anything arising from itself from both or being not uncaused." I had a little hard time hearing in particular the last that you said. Student: "So that not from itself, not from another, not from both and not uncaused, nowhere does anything ever arise. So maybe this is a statement of Shakyamuni teaching that
nothing really exists,
that it's empty from the beginning, pure from the beginning, without any of this causal conditions."
Yes, I think that probably makes sense, that this
is a way that we can see Nāgārjuna making a thesis out of the Prajñāpāramitā. When you read the Prajñāpāramitā Sūtras, then Nāgārjuna says, okay, let me put it into one thesis about reality, and here it is not from itself, not from another, not from both and not uncaused, nowhere does anything ever arise.
So I think that makes good sense.

Student: "So I think that yesterday you said that you
didn't want to really get into whether things really appear or it's a mere appearance, distinguishing between the two truths. So I think that in terms of my perception, things undeniably arise and appear and are there. Whether that's me or not, I think is a further step, but in terms of what I perceive, definitely they are there. And if I think of that and then think of whether I can say that cause and effect are the same, different or a combination, for me it has to be a combination, because definitely certain causes have certain results, regardless of the conditions, that are not other results. Like the usual, a mango seed will give a mango tree and not a banana tree because there's something there that's similar between them and that links them, that does not link certain causes with certain results. So in that sense, there's a similarity, but definitely in the way that things appear and that we see them, the seed is not the same as the tree. So they have to be different too. So for me, I would go for the third option, combination." Great. I think that's a very clear explanation, or way of putting it,
What to say? It's
a very clear way to state precisely that perspective.
That if we "just" want to acknowledge what
is the case from our perspective, then we can't do with the first alternative. It will have to be a combination. And then you also say that the second alternative is the same. That's not an exhaustive account, of cause and effect to say that they are based on other, that they are the arising of things that are different from their causes.
So that then very naturally takes us into
the second alternative, to looking at what the alternative that presents itself when we say things, causes and effects are not the same, then what are they? If they aren't the same, it's easy to think that the immediate alternative and the option to consider immediately after this is that they are different from each other.
And this notion of difference
is very, very prominent in a lot of Buddhist philosophy. So whereas the first alternative is by the commentators usually associated with the Sāṃkhya school, which has this account of the aware being that is fooled by the appearances of prakṛti, which in fact, despite their appearance of causes and effects, is just that universal principle of prakṛti. Whereas the first alternative, things arising from themselves is associated with that philosophy of classic Indian philosophy. The second option, that things arise from things that are different from themselves, is associated with the Buddhist view. So Buddhists believe that causes and effects are not the same. And that's very important for the doctrine of impermanence, that things change, right? And they change all the time, perhaps they change even on a momentary scale. Nothing remains the same for even a moment. So that's what the Abhidharma says about ultimate reality. The ultimate reality of not everything, but the ultimate reality of body and mind is in other words, about anything, the ultimate reality of body and mind, or the physical and the mental. That the physical world comes down to atoms, and those atoms do not endure. They are utterly impermanent. And the mind comes down to just moments of cognition, moments of awareness. And that's then this flux that we also talked about. It seems to us that there are things that last,
entities in the world, people, and so on.
But under analysis, we find that all of these things that seem to feature permanence and duration are not actually and truly like that. They are not permanent and stable in the way that they appear, but constantly changing. And then we said before that seeing in particular that the notion of a permanent, singular, and controlling individual falls apart when we acknowledge that, when we acknowledge the infinite diversity we also talked about, the complexity of body and mind, which became immediately apparent when we began to investigate it, and the constant change, so to speak, of that complexity. When the idea of a permanent and singular and controlling individual is tested against this reality of body and mind or the physical and the mental, then it seems to be completely unfounded. And we then also considered the implications of that kind of discovery, that it's then possible to let go of the tendencies that otherwise drive consciousness mercilessly to react and respond in ways that in the end will, contrary to our expectations and our wishes, just perpetuate suffering. So by understanding that reality is like that, impermanent and complex, as opposed to that the reality of body and mind is like that, complex and impermanent, it's possible to set out on a path that allows liberation from the disturbing emotions, and ultimately freedom from cyclic existence.
So it's the Buddhist position that is under
analysis next that things are impermanent, that causes and effects are impermanent entities, that are therefore also different from each other.
If the Buddhists cannot say that they are
really different, then that whole understanding that we just tried to express, falls. Because what is it then that is not the same, that is not different? Then hundreds of questions will pop up, no? If we can't say conclusively that cause and effect are different, that these things are not the same in the way that they seem to be.
But Nāgārjuna has no p atience
with that view either, so he dismisses it. He presents his dismissal of it in the very first stanza, of the very first analysis, and says that things do not arise from different things either. And how could he then claim that?
In a way the challenge with the second
alternative is the opposite of the first, because in the first case our immediate perceptions tells us that there's something incomplete with the first alternative, that things arise from themselves. Why? Because we have the opposite impression. But in this case,
the appearance of the world is very much in terms
of differences. Seed and sprout, wouldn't a natural statement to make, be to say that those are not same, but different things. A seed is not a sprout, a sprout is not a seed. There is a difference there. So if we're going to say that that is wrong, then how could we possibly do that? Before we insisted on the relevance of this appearance, and now we'll have to somehow dismiss the appearance. If we're going to succeed in refuting the view that cause and effect are different, then we will have to find a view of dismissing our perception of them as being different things. We will have to find a way of dismissing our perception of cause and effect as different, to the effect that, basically, that we will have to find a way of convincing ourselves that no, they're not. That's a tall order, but how could we possibly come to, in a justified way, think that when I say cause and effect are different, then I'm making a false statement?
That's where we will have to get to, if we
can follow Nāgārjuna beyond the first, the refutation of the first alternative, and through a refutation of the second alternative. Then we will have to say that cause and effect are the apparent reality of different causes and effects, is in no way grounds for making the claim that cause and effect are different.
One way of approaching this is to think of,
exactly as you brought up, causal relationships, the appearance of causal relationships. So again we revert to the way things seem to be.
Interesting, no?
We always come back to that, what is the apparent reality? Let's try to be as true as we can to that. Then, on the basis of the apparent reality, we can make claims about ultimate reality, we can develop beliefs about ultimate reality, but if our beliefs about ultimate reality...
But having radical beliefs
about ultimate reality doesn't give us a license to disregard the apparent reality. That's like one message to take when we just consider the flow of how this is going. That is a very sound advice, that no matter how radical and groundbreaking, unbelievable, profound our understanding of the ultimate reality may become, whether we take some philosophical approach, meditation experience, the path of science, whatever it is that we come to understand about ultimate reality doesn't license us to disregard the apparent reality.
So, the way of getting into the refutation
of the second alternative is to begin to then think of what is the kind of relationship that we perceive between a seed and its sprout? It's indeed a relationship. There is a connection there. There's something that ties them together. The very idea of cause and effect builds on certain things having something that makes other things possible. If that certain something is not there, then the second thing is not going to manifest. That is what is so powerful about being able to understand causal relationships, because then once we have identified them, we can act in the world successfully, because we know what's going to happen. That too is an immediate fact and a seemingly undeniable fact of the world, that there are causal relationships, that it's possible to figure out things to some extent at least, so that we can successfully make informed choices about what to do and what not to do. If I feel thirsty, I will grab a glass of water and I will not hold up a burning match to my mouth, because I have a very clear sense of what water does for my thirst as opposed to fire.
Causal relationships,
we may say that cause and effect, seed is seed and sprout is sprout, but there's also something that, and that is very key, connects them. In other words, as you were already suggesting, it is not good enough to say that cause and effect are purely different. The bravado that Sāṃkhya had when presenting the idea that cause and effect are one and the same was here expressed by a Buddhist. Let's say cause and effect are different, but just as we told the Sāṃkhya person, now we tell the Buddhist, "Save it for later. You don't belong in this category. Your account is not an account of pure difference." If it were, then these causal relationships would be inexplicable. There would be no way to explain why it is that precisely the rice seed gives rise to a rice sprout, and not to a mango tree, or to an elephant, or to the planet Mars. If cause and effect were just purely different from each other, then that would be universally the case. That is the Buddhist claim often, that all these causes and effects are different. So if we take that seriously, then it cancels the very idea of causation, because if there's a universal fact of difference with respect to anything, then where does that leave the possibility for relation? So that's where we will stop today and that's a very, very central point. So please consider this carefully and we will have plenty of time to consider this very point from many different angles as we go. But try already now to see how far you can come with this.
And in particular, what?

Yeah, in particular see

whether this simple appeal to causal relationships,
to our noticing of causal relationships, makes the claim that cause and effect are different, untenable, without modification. Is it the case that we will have to say cause and effect are different, but... also such and such, whatever it might be, we will then have to find the commonality elsewhere. We will then have to find what it then is that allows the appearance of causal relationship. But is it at this point sufficient to say cause and effect are not different from each other, because we do indeed notice causal relationships? The very idea of cause and the very idea of effect in and of themselves deny pure difference as the correct account of the 'relationship' between cause and effect. Okay, thank you very much and see you again tomorrow. Bye.
Good morning everybody. Hello. Good morning. Very sorry I'm late, but let's begin. "That which originates dependently does not cease and does not arise, is not annihilated and is not permanent, does not come and does not go, is not different and not the same to the true teacher who reveals this peace, the complete pacification of constructs, to the perfect Buddha, I bow down."
All Right. So,
We are into first verse of the first investigation, the Analysis of Conditions.
And we have thought about whether things arise,
whether there is at least some appearance of arising that we can recognize. Would you mind closing the door here? Thank you.
And then we have considered whether it is right
to say that if there is such an appearance of arising, if it seems that things happen,
that then such arising of things could only
happen in two different ways: eiither it would be an arising of things that is determined by and restricted by causal constellations, causes and conditions, or otherwise it is an arising that is completely independent of that. So uncaused arising, completely random arising. And I think we have all agreed, we have each individually said that the appearance of arising is something that we do know and cannot deny. And we have also, I haven't heard anyone object to this categorization into two basic forms of arising, and saying that that is all inclusive, that there's nothing, that doesn't find its place in these two categories. But please think about it still. Is there some form of arising that could be of a third order, neither causal nor random? And then we began to look at each of the four alternatives that are presented, because as we know, the first three are variants of the view that things arise based on causes and conditions, and then the fourth is the second alternative. So the first of the two alternatives: caused versus not caused arising, that first alternative is itself divided into three, where we say again, the aim is to come up with some categories that capture everything that comes under the main category. So what is the main category? It is arising based on causes and conditions. And then the author would like to have us agree that it is fair to say that any form of arising can be captured within three categories. Things arise, that would be the first explanation of the arising of things. Things arise from causes that are identical with the arisen thing. So cause and effect are identical. That is the first variant. Secondly, it could be the case that things arise from other things, from things that are different from themselves. In other words, the view that cause and effect are different. Or it could be the case that what is happening is really neither of the first two in isolation, but it's a combination of them - that things arise both from themselves and from other things. And then we wonder, is it true that again, this simple categorization is a way of capturing any form of arising? So causality, of course, is extremely complex. And yet here we are challenged to say, do we agree that regardless of the incredible complexity, the sort of the fathomless complexity of causality. Because who really can compreehend fully how things interact and give rise to each other. Despite this fathomless complexity of causality, that all forms of cause and effect find their place in this simple framework of three different views about it. It could be the view that we could think that this myriad forms of causes, conditions and effects are all really the same, that they are of the very same identity. Or we could think that they are different from each other, or we could think that they are a combination. So that is something that is very important for us to think of. Again, is there a fourth, in this case, possibility with respect to causality? So we did that to some extent yesterday also. And the point is to, whenever we consider questions here, to then keep them burning, in the breaks and at home, in your sessions of study, contemplation, and to come to a sense of precisely where you're at yourselves.
We also went further than this. We said that
we began to consider the feasibility of the first account, that things, causes and effects are the same And we didn't spend much time on it. In effect, we dismissed it quite quickly. We said that the only way to defend this view is to say, is a sort of doctrine of illusion. The only way that we can get away with saying that cause and effect are the same is to say, that cause and effect aren't what they seem. Because cause and effect do come across as different from each other, no? There's cause and there's effect. So the only way to become a believer in the first option is to say,
it's just an illusion. What you see is not reality.
In fact, cause and effect are no different from each other. And then we very sort of high-handedly, if that's the right expression, we dismissed any sort of philosophical orientation that takes that shape
by saying that if that is our idea,
if we have this sort of framework that says appearance is illusory, reality is different, reality is one, the appearance is multiple and diverse. If that is our view, and there are many schools of thought that operate with this sort of view, both Buddhist and non-Buddhist, ancient and modern, scientific accounts that take this form. But we sort of brush them all. We say, what you have there is not a pure monism. So in a way, the very idea of monism, that there is what reality is one, and the appearance of diversity and complexity is just appearance. All of that we swept aside with just a single remark. We said the fact that you acknowledge diversity at the level of appearance means that you are not a pure monist, that you cannot defend pure monism. In fact, what you defend is not the first alternative, that things arise from themselves, it's the third alternative. Because what you say is that in one way, things are different, namely in the way that they come across, in the way that they appear, but in fact they are one. So that doesn't cut it for the first alternative. The first alternative is a non-starter, in other words. It doesn't work to say that this is all that there is to say, all is one, because there is the appearance that we cannot deny. So that's a very... I don't know what to call that kind of approach. It's not being very patient with the opposition,
or with all the very
many philosophical, religious, scientific approaches that make this claim of monism.
Because we say that the very idea
just doesn't work. You may call it monism, but it's not. So I think that's more or less where we ended yesterday, and it would be great if someone can, whatever you have reflected about at home I'd be very happy to hear where you've got to. And again, the key is to say, where have I gotten to? That's actually the only thing that's really interesting at this point. We can study Mādhyamaka philosophy later, so to speak. There's this sense of a sort of first encounter, a direct encounter, where we don't have to keep any philosophical categories in mind at all, except from those that just present themselves naturally to us as truths.
So now we have said that monism isn't true.
It's a hopelessly flawed idea, and it took us less than a minute to say so. So that's something to think of. Is this fair? It doesn't seem polite, at least. It doesn't seem very accommodating or not really willing to engage in any sort of dialogue. It's just throwing an argument in somebody's face, really in our own face, because we're talking about, we're investigating our own opinions. And perhaps monism has a great appeal in many ways. Perhaps it doesn't. Perhaps we are strongly against it. But there may be many of us who feel that that's a good case for that, whether we come from a philosophical, religious or scientific background.
Thank you.

Student: "Hello? I think that there is a good argument
for monism, because you say that, okay, so we can't see it. No, I can't see it with having my eyes like this. But if I put on glasses and if I put on, you know, how do you say, the right tools, I can see atoms at some point. I can identify them with my, you know, reality, a view. And at that point, everything is the same. It is one. Like, you know, if it's all like, I don't know, then they split up the atoms, but it's not different anymore."
If we accept that what we see is a physical reality and so on, yeah?
Student: "Yeah, because you said that, you know, the way of refuting this is to say, well, you can just see that there are causes, you know, that there are cause and effect. So we are in the third option. But I would refute that by saying, no, we're not in the third option, because it just depends on the tools we have to see that it is indeed the same." Right. So, yeah, I think what we need to say is we refute the very idea of monism as this sort of true monism really all is one and that's the whole story. Student: "But it is, right?" Yeah. So if that is what monism is, then we have refute monism hereby, arguably. And let's argue about it. But so how is that the case? If by saying that because we have to put on special glasses, that's why it's not just all the same. It's not the whole story. So we are not, we still have some sort of flame of monism burning somewhere. It hasn't died out entirely because we have just relegated it to a different category. We say monism, what people call monism isn't entirely monism, but okay, let's call it monism and then place it in the third category as an account of things arising both from themselves, meaning the shared identity of cause and effect, and then an acknowledgement of diversity and difference. Student: "But I don't like, because, okay, so let's say the other way. So what we talked about this yesterday, I go into a spaceship, people have been on spaceships and they have gone to Mars, right? Or the moon at least, not Mars, sorry." Yes, they have, no? Student: "Well, we don't know about it. Maybe we have. I'm not part of any secret group. Anyways, from that point, from the moon, the earth is one, right?" From the point of the moon, the earth is one? Student: "Yeah, like I'm just trying to…" So that is different. If we talk about constructs, if we say it's useful to speak about things as if they are all one, then fine. Here we are just trying to see, are these views and accounts actually true? True in terms of things as they are? Does it capture the nature of reality to say that all is one, period? Student: "Yeah, probably not when you say it like that." So okay, probably not when you say it like that. That's a very good example of don't agree easily. Okay. And think more about it, yeah?
Thank you.

Student: "So yeah, I think that this argument that you
gave yesterday somewhat strawmans the like monist perspective. In other words, I don't think monists think themselves that appearances don't differ, right? So clearly a monist view has to incorporate the apparent difference of appearances. And so a more charitable read, trying to give monism a more charitable read, and I also want to bring in what we were talking about yesterday and the day before in terms of, do things happen?" Those are very related, yeah? Student: "They're very related. Yeah. And one thing that folks were talking about yesterday and the day before is this conceptual belief that things don't happen, but maybe a perceptual encounter with things happening. And I want to add to that and just talk about how there's kind of different ways to perceive happening. And meditation is a good example. When you meditate, things seem to happen a little bit differently or the nature of happening seems to change a little bit. In particular, I would say, just speaking personally, I've tried to meditate on things like thoughts or even physical appearances. And because of the encounter with impermanence, they never really seem to manifest the way that I conceptually impute them to manifest, when I'm just moving around in my daily life. So in other words, on a certain level of perception, things don't appear, things don't happen the way that I normally think that they do. So if we're trying to be a little bit more generous to monism, but also maybe even a monism that doesn't require some kind of ontological commitment to a substrate, a causal substrate that is actually the same between cause and effect, which I think is easily refuted by other arguments. What if we said something like cause and effect are actually the same and that neither cause nor effect happens. And yet we have the everyday appearance, the everyday encounter with causes and effects. So the monism is actually a monism of non-happening, non-arising, which is in line with what Nāgārjuna is arguing here. And so that seems to me to be a more charitable, more plausible account of monism." Right. Thank you. First about the meditation experience.
I think, yeah, the question is
just whether it makes sense to say things happen. We are not committed at that point to any particular version of the arising of things or any particular version of the appearance of arising. It's just, is there that or not? Yeah. So even if it seems that there are times when there is no arising whatsoever, if there are other times where it does seem to be the case, then we would still be at the same basic position that things happen. They don't have to happen all the time, but if they do at least sometimes, then yeah, that's enough of a commitment here. That's the only question we're asking. Does it seem that things happen? Not necessarily all the time, not necessarily in a sort of predictable way or whatever else expectations we may have about it, but just does it seem to be the case? And then your defense of monism, I think, is very fine and accurate as an account also of classic monism. Well, it's actually not monism. The Sāṃkhya philosophy, because it's a basic dualism, but it just, there's a soul, a conscious being that perceives the world of prakṛti. But prakṛti, it is actually dualism, but within the principle of prakṛti, all the objects
there is a seeming difference
between cause and effect, but in fact there is none. So as you say precisely, really it's a matter of ultimate non-arising and relative seeming arising. So that's the cause that I think any monist orientation will have to take, because otherwise it doesn't work. We have to acknowledge where we are right now as a starting point at least, and then we can say something about the reality of that. But what we are then further saying is that if that's what is the case with monism, then it shouldn't be considered a strong claim of the type that we see in the first alternative. It's sort of on the one hand, and on the other hand yes, on the other hand no kind of perspective. And whether that's acceptable to the monist thinker, believer or not, that's for them to decide. But arguably with this we have said that if you go for the strong claim, you aren't going to succeed. If you go for the strong claim to say all is one, plus that's it then you're missing a very important part of the story.
So is that fair to say that
if you think you can be that strong, I don't even need to talk to you? If you think you can be that clear in your presentation of what all of this really is, then good luck, but you will never get anywhere.
Is that correct? Is it correct that the really
strong claim is impossible to maintain and that it can be refuted very quickly and decisively by saying, well, don't you acknowledge at least some seeming appearance? What do you think? This is a real key to think of in your own hearts.
Student: "This is not like a response to that question
that you just asked, but a little bit before. So I would say that I agree with the first option, that cause and effect are the same because my conceptual experience of both cause and effect arise out of the same illusionistic view that I am who I think I am. Therefore, they are both born out of the same personal narrative that I used to define myself and the world around me. And since they both arise from this personal narrative, although they may appear different, they are both born out of the same source of identity which I maintain throughout my life. Therefore, since they both are born out of the same notion of self-identity, they are the same thing."
Okay, let me see if I understood this correctly,
that cause and effect are same insofar as they are, what to say, your constructs? Is that correct? Student: "Yeah, like cause and effect are both constructs that I have created. So they are the same thing." So whether you have created them or whether there's a little more to say about how they are created is a different story, you know, but yeah, sure, often we talk like that, yeah.
So but I guess that has to do with, what to say?

That's interesting.
Cause and effect. So you say that you agree with the first, your views fit with the first alternative? Student: "Yeah, option one." Option one, because cause and effect or any instance of cause and effect is the same in being a construction. So, I think
we would reply
the same as before, that okay, the same as construction but hey, the constructs, cause, effect are not identical, yeah. So in fact you came up with a sophisticated account of not the first, but the third alternative, yeah. You wanted to have room for some sameness of cause and effect, and you chose to let that sameness be in terms of construction and at the same time you wanted to say that there is this world, yeah, that gives an appearance of difference. So that would again be a version of option three.
Student: "Okay, thank you."
Thank you. "So there's one online?" Yeah, absolutely, sure. "Hello Don, can you speak?"
Student: "Yes, I was wondering about these first two
standards that we're talking about. You know, nowhere does anything ever arise? So then there's these four conditions as a reply, I'm assuming.
So the context of this analysis of conditions,
Nāgārjuna is discussing this with someone.
And so the context is he's given a commentary on
Shakyamuni's teaching on Vulture Peak Mountain.
So these four conditions, where it says there is
no fifth condition, maybe it's not a condition, maybe there is no condition. That's why there isn't anything arising from itself from both or being not uncaused." I had a little hard time hearing in particular the last that you said. Student: "So that not from itself, not from another, not from both and not uncaused, nowhere does anything ever arise. So maybe this is a statement of Shakyamuni teaching that
nothing really exists,
that it's empty from the beginning, pure from the beginning, without any of this causal conditions."
Yes, I think that probably makes sense, that this
is a way that we can see Nāgārjuna making a thesis out of the Prajñāpāramitā. When you read the Prajñāpāramitā Sūtras, then Nāgārjuna says, okay, let me put it into one thesis about reality, and here it is not from itself, not from another, not from both and not uncaused, nowhere does anything ever arise.
So I think that makes good sense.

Student: "So I think that yesterday you said that you
didn't want to really get into whether things really appear or it's a mere appearance, distinguishing between the two truths. So I think that in terms of my perception, things undeniably arise and appear and are there. Whether that's me or not, I think is a further step, but in terms of what I perceive, definitely they are there. And if I think of that and then think of whether I can say that cause and effect are the same, different or a combination, for me it has to be a combination, because definitely certain causes have certain results, regardless of the conditions, that are not other results. Like the usual, a mango seed will give a mango tree and not a banana tree because there's something there that's similar between them and that links them, that does not link certain causes with certain results. So in that sense, there's a similarity, but definitely in the way that things appear and that we see them, the seed is not the same as the tree. So they have to be different too. So for me, I would go for the third option, combination." Great. I think that's a very clear explanation, or way of putting it,
What to say? It's
a very clear way to state precisely that perspective.
That if we "just" want to acknowledge what
is the case from our perspective, then we can't do with the first alternative. It will have to be a combination. And then you also say that the second alternative is the same. That's not an exhaustive account, of cause and effect to say that they are based on other, that they are the arising of things that are different from their causes.
So that then very naturally takes us into
the second alternative, to looking at what the alternative that presents itself when we say things, causes and effects are not the same, then what are they? If they aren't the same, it's easy to think that the immediate alternative and the option to consider immediately after this is that they are different from each other.
And this notion of difference
is very, very prominent in a lot of Buddhist philosophy. So whereas the first alternative is by the commentators usually associated with the Sāṃkhya school, which has this account of the aware being that is fooled by the appearances of prakṛti, which in fact, despite their appearance of causes and effects, is just that universal principle of prakṛti. Whereas the first alternative, things arising from themselves is associated with that philosophy of classic Indian philosophy. The second option, that things arise from things that are different from themselves, is associated with the Buddhist view. So Buddhists believe that causes and effects are not the same. And that's very important for the doctrine of impermanence, that things change, right? And they change all the time, perhaps they change even on a momentary scale. Nothing remains the same for even a moment. So that's what the Abhidharma says about ultimate reality. The ultimate reality of not everything, but the ultimate reality of body and mind is in other words, about anything, the ultimate reality of body and mind, or the physical and the mental. That the physical world comes down to atoms, and those atoms do not endure. They are utterly impermanent. And the mind comes down to just moments of cognition, moments of awareness. And that's then this flux that we also talked about. It seems to us that there are things that last,
entities in the world, people, and so on.
But under analysis, we find that all of these things that seem to feature permanence and duration are not actually and truly like that. They are not permanent and stable in the way that they appear, but constantly changing. And then we said before that seeing in particular that the notion of a permanent, singular, and controlling individual falls apart when we acknowledge that, when we acknowledge the infinite diversity we also talked about, the complexity of body and mind, which became immediately apparent when we began to investigate it, and the constant change, so to speak, of that complexity. When the idea of a permanent and singular and controlling individual is tested against this reality of body and mind or the physical and the mental, then it seems to be completely unfounded. And we then also considered the implications of that kind of discovery, that it's then possible to let go of the tendencies that otherwise drive consciousness mercilessly to react and respond in ways that in the end will, contrary to our expectations and our wishes, just perpetuate suffering. So by understanding that reality is like that, impermanent and complex, as opposed to that the reality of body and mind is like that, complex and impermanent, it's possible to set out on a path that allows liberation from the disturbing emotions, and ultimately freedom from cyclic existence.
So it's the Buddhist position that is under
analysis next that things are impermanent, that causes and effects are impermanent entities, that are therefore also different from each other.
If the Buddhists cannot say that they are
really different, then that whole understanding that we just tried to express, falls. Because what is it then that is not the same, that is not different? Then hundreds of questions will pop up, no? If we can't say conclusively that cause and effect are different, that these things are not the same in the way that they seem to be.
But Nāgārjuna has no p atience
with that view either, so he dismisses it. He presents his dismissal of it in the very first stanza, of the very first analysis, and says that things do not arise from different things either. And how could he then claim that?
In a way the challenge with the second
alternative is the opposite of the first, because in the first case our immediate perceptions tells us that there's something incomplete with the first alternative, that things arise from themselves. Why? Because we have the opposite impression. But in this case,
the appearance of the world is very much in terms
of differences. Seed and sprout, wouldn't a natural statement to make, be to say that those are not same, but different things. A seed is not a sprout, a sprout is not a seed. There is a difference there. So if we're going to say that that is wrong, then how could we possibly do that? Before we insisted on the relevance of this appearance, and now we'll have to somehow dismiss the appearance. If we're going to succeed in refuting the view that cause and effect are different, then we will have to find a view of dismissing our perception of them as being different things. We will have to find a way of dismissing our perception of cause and effect as different, to the effect that, basically, that we will have to find a way of convincing ourselves that no, they're not. That's a tall order, but how could we possibly come to, in a justified way, think that when I say cause and effect are different, then I'm making a false statement?
That's where we will have to get to, if we
can follow Nāgārjuna beyond the first, the refutation of the first alternative, and through a refutation of the second alternative. Then we will have to say that cause and effect are the apparent reality of different causes and effects, is in no way grounds for making the claim that cause and effect are different.
One way of approaching this is to think of,
exactly as you brought up, causal relationships, the appearance of causal relationships. So again we revert to the way things seem to be.
Interesting, no?
We always come back to that, what is the apparent reality? Let's try to be as true as we can to that. Then, on the basis of the apparent reality, we can make claims about ultimate reality, we can develop beliefs about ultimate reality, but if our beliefs about ultimate reality...
But having radical beliefs
about ultimate reality doesn't give us a license to disregard the apparent reality. That's like one message to take when we just consider the flow of how this is going. That is a very sound advice, that no matter how radical and groundbreaking, unbelievable, profound our understanding of the ultimate reality may become, whether we take some philosophical approach, meditation experience, the path of science, whatever it is that we come to understand about ultimate reality doesn't license us to disregard the apparent reality.
So, the way of getting into the refutation
of the second alternative is to begin to then think of what is the kind of relationship that we perceive between a seed and its sprout? It's indeed a relationship. There is a connection there. There's something that ties them together. The very idea of cause and effect builds on certain things having something that makes other things possible. If that certain something is not there, then the second thing is not going to manifest. That is what is so powerful about being able to understand causal relationships, because then once we have identified them, we can act in the world successfully, because we know what's going to happen. That too is an immediate fact and a seemingly undeniable fact of the world, that there are causal relationships, that it's possible to figure out things to some extent at least, so that we can successfully make informed choices about what to do and what not to do. If I feel thirsty, I will grab a glass of water and I will not hold up a burning match to my mouth, because I have a very clear sense of what water does for my thirst as opposed to fire.
Causal relationships,
we may say that cause and effect, seed is seed and sprout is sprout, but there's also something that, and that is very key, connects them. In other words, as you were already suggesting, it is not good enough to say that cause and effect are purely different. The bravado that Sāṃkhya had when presenting the idea that cause and effect are one and the same was here expressed by a Buddhist. Let's say cause and effect are different, but just as we told the Sāṃkhya person, now we tell the Buddhist, "Save it for later. You don't belong in this category. Your account is not an account of pure difference." If it were, then these causal relationships would be inexplicable. There would be no way to explain why it is that precisely the rice seed gives rise to a rice sprout, and not to a mango tree, or to an elephant, or to the planet Mars. If cause and effect were just purely different from each other, then that would be universally the case. That is the Buddhist claim often, that all these causes and effects are different. So if we take that seriously, then it cancels the very idea of causation, because if there's a universal fact of difference with respect to anything, then where does that leave the possibility for relation? So that's where we will stop today and that's a very, very central point. So please consider this carefully and we will have plenty of time to consider this very point from many different angles as we go. But try already now to see how far you can come with this.
And in particular, what?

Yeah, in particular see

whether this simple appeal to causal relationships,
to our noticing of causal relationships, makes the claim that cause and effect are different, untenable, without modification. Is it the case that we will have to say cause and effect are different, but... also such and such, whatever it might be, we will then have to find the commonality elsewhere. We will then have to find what it then is that allows the appearance of causal relationship. But is it at this point sufficient to say cause and effect are not different from each other, because we do indeed notice causal relationships? The very idea of cause and the very idea of effect in and of themselves deny pure difference as the correct account of the 'relationship' between cause and effect. Okay, thank you very much and see you again tomorrow. Bye.
video
play-rounded-outline
17:26

Root of The Middle Way – Session 07

Exploring Causality
Teacher: 
Location: 
  • Rangjung Yeshe Institute - Nepal
Description >>

Session 7 further delves into the first verse of the first investigation, exploring causality and arising from causes and conditions. Pure monism is rejected, perception’s role and the complexity of reconciling philosophies are discussed. The lecture briefly mentions the Prajñāpāramitā Sūtras and the importance of diverse perspectives in Buddhist philosophy. It encourages contemplating causal relationships challenging the idea of fundamental difference between cause and effect.

Resources

Nāgārjuna’s Root of the Middle Way

Chapter 2: Analysis of Going and Coming (from the Ornament of Reason, Snow Lion Publications, 2011)

Description

This text has been provided for the course: Root of the Middle Way – Mūlamadhyamakakārikā
“Nagarjuna’s Root of the Middle Way presents a clear, firm philosophical thesis with respect to things’ lacking true existence. It argues that just as sentient beings are devoid of innate existence, so are all Buddhas, the cycle of existence, and the tranquility of nirvana. Such assertions are a great source of inspiration, for they suggest that each of us has the opportunity to scale the greatest spiritual heights, provided we tread the right path.”  —H.H. the Dalai Lama, from the foreword

Ornament of Reason – Chapter 2

The Great Commentary to Nāgārjuna’s Root of the Middle Way

Description

This text has been provided for the course: Root of the Middle Way – Mūlamadhyamakakārikā
Mabja’s Ornament of Reason is one of the most important Tibetan commentaries on Nāgārjuna’s Root of the Middle Way. It is an original work that offers interpretations of Madhyamaka philosophy that cannot be ignored by those who are intent on studying seriously this tradition. Thomas Doctor’s masterful translation, which is as accurate as it is readable, makes an extremely valuable contribution by making available the important insights that this work offers, insights that will help the readers to understand Nāgārjuna’s original text.

Scroll to Top